| 00:00:00 | Border of 350
kilometers with iran, so we're
two neighboring countries.
|
| 00:00:10 | So if we -- if there are
problems, then this would be a
major difficulty for turkey in
the region.
|
| 00:00:24 | So diplomatically speaking, we
would think there could be
problems if other methods are
resorted to.
|
| 00:00:34 | We think that diplomacy is what
we have to do, that's what we
have to do because I don't think
diplomacy has been exhausted
yet.
|
| 00:00:43 | We said it in iraq as well.
|
| 00:00:49 | We should use diplomacy, and we
should not lose the people there
-- the country there.
|
| 00:00:55 | >> Charlie: Prime minister
erdogan of turkey for the hour.
|
| 00:00:56 | Coming up.
|
| 00:01:00 | funding for "charlie
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| 00:01:32 | ♪♪ ♪♪
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| 00:01:32 | ♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:01:36 | >> from our studios in new y
Captioning sponsored by
Rose communications
from our studios in new york
city, this is charlie rose.
|
| 00:01:45 | >> Prime minister recep tayyip
erdogan in the united states for
meetings with president obama,
members of the administration
and members of congress.
|
| 00:01:53 | Turkey is an important american
ally.
|
| 00:01:54 | It is playing an increasing role
in its region, it is already a
member of nato and wants to be a
member of the european union.
|
| 00:02:02 | I am pleased to sit down with
the prime minister here and talk
about the issues of mutual
concern and the role that turkey
can play.
|
| 00:02:11 | Tell me what you hope to get on
this visit from the president.
|
| 00:02:19 | >> Well, let me start by
thanking you as well.
|
| 00:02:24 | It's very good to be here.
|
| 00:02:29 | The most important goal in this
visit was that, as you will
know, president obama visited
turkey during his first overseas
visit, and during that visit he
characterized the relationship
between turkey and the united
states as a model partnership,
which is a new characterization
of our relationship, because it
used to be a strategic
partnership.
|
| 00:03:04 | Now what we have to do now is
talk about how we can add more
meaning to what it really means
to have a model partnership.
|
| 00:03:11 | In this visit, our aim has been
to start forming a model
cooperation effort to add
meaning to the model
partnership, and are that, the
, for its part, has tasked
two high-level officials and i
have given the responsibility to
two ministers to have a
bilateral meeting which took
place for the first time
yesterday, and the goal of this
group working together is to
look at areas of economic
cooperation, scientific
cooperation, cooperation in the
area of arts and politics,
military areas, technology,
high-tech included, so these are
the areas of cooperation we are
working on, and also, of course,
regional issues and global
issues, and the cooperation
between turkey and the united
states in those areas are all
part and parcel of this effort,
and we're looking to see how we
can move forward in our
collaborative efforts and also,
of course, more importantly,
perhaps, is fighting against
terrorism, because in my own
country we are working in this
area and we are looking to see
how we can further develop our
cooperation, because when i
visited here on 5th of november,
2007, we had said with president
bush at the time, and there was
a statement made after that
meeting where we said that the
, that there is an
organization in common, turkey
and iraq, and we are trying to
keep working in furthering our
efforts in fighting against
terrorism.
|
| 00:04:51 | We also have collaboration in
afghanistan.
|
| 00:04:54 | We have also worked together in
iraq on issues regarding the
middle east, and we also are
looking at what we can do about
the nuclear program in iran, so
these are the issues we covered.
|
| 00:05:07 | Also, the process of
normalization between turkey and
armenia was another issue which
we had time to evaluate.
|
| 00:05:15 | We also discussed cyprus.
|
| 00:05:17 | These have been, in general,
issues that we have focused on,
and also we talked about
fighting drug trafficking, for
example.
|
| 00:05:28 | Those are the kinds of issues we
discussed.
|
| 00:05:31 | >> Charlie: Let me begin with
each one of those.
|
| 00:05:33 | First, afghanistan.
|
| 00:05:36 | Will you send more troops from
turkey to afghanistan?
|
| 00:05:41 | And will they play a combat
role?
|
| 00:05:49 | >> Before all this most recent
discussion about afghanistan
began, we were already very much
involved with afghanistan.
|
| 00:05:56 | Turkey has taken over the
command of the forces there, so
we had already sent troops to
afghanistan before these current
discussions.
|
| 00:06:05 | We had 750 troops up until a few
months ago which we increased to
1,750, to about 1,800, and
additionally, I have also made
the following proposal to the
president.
|
| 00:06:22 | About establishing the afghan
national army.
|
| 00:06:25 | We have provided a lot of
training up until today, and we
would like to continue with
providing training, not just in
turkey, which is what we used to
do but we also now want to have
a center in afghanistan where we
can continue with training
troops, and if we could train
two battalions in two months, we
would then be able to train 12
battalions, and that would mean
that we would send some
officials to provide the
training and the second area of
training we can focus on is
police training, and that's also
very important in afghanistan.
|
| 00:07:04 | So these are the things that we
can do.
|
| 00:07:07 | Another thing that we're doing
which we can continue to do is
work -- provisional
reconstruction teamwork.
|
| 00:07:14 | We have made so far an
investment of $50 million and
there has been another request
for $40 million, and we could
increase that to about $50
million.
|
| 00:07:30 | We're making investments, but we
can also continue to develop
this investment in the north.
|
| 00:07:37 | So those are the efforts that we
engage in.
|
| 00:07:43 | Now, at the beginning of the
20th century, under the
leadership of -- turks were
involved in establishing the
afghan national army so now what
we can do is to try to help that
effort again so that the afghan
army and afghanistan is
self-sufficient in its own
defense and I think that we can
achieve this.
|
| 00:08:06 | >> Charlie: Why no combat
troops?
|
| 00:08:12 | >> From the very beginning, our
agreement has been that we
should take upon ourselves the
responsibilities that I have
just described.
|
| 00:08:29 | We are predominantly a muslim
nation and so is afghanistan, so
if we do something that will
create an issue with the trust
that the afghan people have in
us, then many things would be
more difficult to do because
right now we are providing a lot
of service and the people trust
us, so we have to keep in this
role and we have to keep working
on those areas we work in, so we
have specifically chosen this
format because the conditions in
that area require us to do that,
and these are the steps that we
can take, and I think that this
will also help build a sounder
future for afghanistan.
|
| 00:09:22 | Of course, as part of nato.
|
| 00:09:24 | >> Charlie: The goal of the
president's strategy is to build
a strong resistance to the
taliban so that it does not
offer a safe haven.
|
| 00:09:34 | Do you think that's possible in
the time frame that the
president has outlined?
|
| 00:09:46 | >> Now, these kinds of things
cannot really be calculated like
a math problem, because these
things -- many things can go
wrong, and in politics and in
these kinds of efforts two plus
two don't always make four.
|
| 00:10:01 | Things could change because
circumstances may change but the
roadmap must be well planned.
|
| 00:10:06 | The calendar may change, and if
something goes wrong and your
calendar doesn't turn out to be
accurate, then there could be
more problems.
|
| 00:10:17 | So I think the basis of what the
roadmap is is what's more
important.
|
| 00:10:21 | That's what one has to focus on,
and if that roadmap can be
implemented in collaboration
with the people in that region,
then the results can be very
good, and this is what we're
trying to do too.
|
| 00:10:39 | I never -- seen in the history
of afghanistan that many -- many
leading countries have had
problems there.
|
| 00:10:49 | Alexander the great and russia,
and its struggles in afghanistan
-- we all know about them.
|
| 00:10:54 | We have to make sure that it
doesn't repeat itself, and we
have to draw lessons from the
past.
|
| 00:11:04 | The british have had their
experiences in the region.
|
| 00:11:06 | The geography in afghanistan is
very unique.
|
| 00:11:08 | Very different.
|
| 00:11:09 | The people there are different.
|
| 00:11:11 | So we have to make sure that we
use our -- the leverages that we
have very carefully, because if
we don't do that, we cannot
achieve the kind of effort to
resolve, and I think this will
have an impact on the process as
a whole.
|
| 00:11:27 | >> Charlie: You mean the
leverage of turkey?
|
| 00:11:30 | Or the leverage of all of the
forces fighting against the
taliban in afghanistan?
|
| 00:11:45 | >> What turkey can do here is
different in nature, so it must
be understood well, so when i
say leverage, this is what i
mean -- what can be done.
|
| 00:12:02 | When you speak of troops,
everyone should understand that
the troops -- when you speak of
troops, they're the combat
forces.
|
| 00:12:14 | You don't have any other type --
but then again, there are some
who have logistical
responsibilities but in essence,
all troops are combat troops.
|
| 00:12:27 | We have to make sure we win the
hearts of the people in
afghanistan too so the forces
should be welcomed in
afghanistan.
|
| 00:12:33 | There may be places in some
areas where people may not
welcome or look favorably upon
these forces, but we have to
make sure that there is that
connection with the people and
the troops, so it's very
important to consider that if
this is not done properly, then
we may not get the results we're
looking for, so that's what we
have to focus on.
|
| 00:12:56 | That's what we're focusing on
and that's why we believe in the
future this will be important.
|
| 00:13:00 | >> Charlie: Iran.
|
| 00:13:02 | It is my understanding that the
president would like for you to
play a role in iran.
|
| 00:13:15 | You have called president
ahmadinejad your good friend.
|
| 00:13:17 | What can you do?
|
| 00:13:25 | >> I believe that foreign policy
must be based on making friends
and not enemies.
|
| 00:13:31 | This is what I am trying to do
as a leader.
|
| 00:13:42 | And this is what we're trying to
do with neighboring countries
but then also with countries
that are a little farther away
from us, but what I am trying to
do is to achieve a working
relationship with all leaders.
|
| 00:13:56 | With iran, we have an agreement
dating back to 1639, and we have
a border system, and we have not
had any major problems with iran
since that agreement, and in the
years that have passed and
especially in the last seven
years we have developed our
relations on a sounder basis.
|
| 00:14:23 | I should also say that natural
gas is very important in our
energy supply, and russia is our
first trading partner, and
second trading partner is iran.
|
| 00:14:38 | So we -- I get natural gas from
iran and natural gas is very
important for our
industralization effort.
|
| 00:14:47 | Also, in turkey, many of the
homes also use natural gas, so
52% of our energy comes from
natural gas, so if there is a
difficulty, a problem with that
supply then this would create a
major problem for us in turkey.
|
| 00:15:07 | Our foreign trade with iran at
the end of 2008 is 10 billion
dollars, and our goal in
the next 3-5 years is to
increase it to $30 billion u.s.
|
| 00:15:24 | Dollars.
|
| 00:15:26 | Of course, I have to think of
the best interests of turkey,
and it's very important that we
develop these relations.
|
| 00:15:38 | Of course, when I speak of power
plants here, I'm speaking mostly
of natural-gas-fired power
plants, and this is not achieve
energy -- it's quite expensive
-- this is not a cheap energy,
but we need it because we use
natural gas and this is how we
produce our energy and we
therefore are in great need of
natural gas.
|
| 00:16:01 | That's how we have to keep
working on our relations in that
area.
|
| 00:16:06 | On the nuclear program, we
believe that we can play a very
important role between iran and
countries of the world, and i
had said this to president bush
as a friend, and yesterday,
again, as friends with president
obama, we spoke of this and we
have very positive feelings
towards each other -- president
obama considers myself I believe
his friend and so do i, and i
would like to say that here, and
so as my colleague, as my
friend, we are always ready to
play an active role.
|
| 00:16:49 | I would consider it a political
responsibility, and also a
responsibility to achieve world
peace.
|
| 00:16:54 | >> Charlie: Are you saying that
your commercial interests
prevent you from engaging in
sanctions against iran even
though the united states is in
favor, even though russia may
engage, even though china may
engage in sanctions if
everything else fails?
|
| 00:17:23 | >> There is not just the
commercial dimensions.
|
| 00:17:26 | There is also an issue of
principles.
|
| 00:17:31 | We fair the same principlesment
we have a common history,
civilization -- there are many
relations from the past, and we
have a border of 350 kilometers
with iran, so we're two
neighboring countries.
|
| 00:17:52 | So if we -- if there are
problems, then this would be a
major difficulty for turkey in
the region, so diplomatically
speaking, we would think that
there could be problems if other
methods are resorted to.
|
| 00:18:17 | We think that diplomacy is what
we have to do -- that's what we
have to do, because I don't
think diplomacy has been
exhausted yet.
|
| 00:18:27 | We said it in iraq as well, and
we should use diplomacy -- and
we should not lose the people
there, the country there.
|
| 00:18:35 | >> Charlie: What remains to be
done diplomatically?
|
| 00:18:40 | They tried everything.
|
| 00:18:42 | >> Dick: The question to ask is
what has been tried because i
said it, and it should be so.
|
| 00:18:51 | That's not good enough.
|
| 00:18:52 | I think we have to look at what
the other side is saying as well
and respect it.
|
| 00:19:01 | If they say that they need to
get nuclear energy, and if we're
saying that they are trying to
establish a nuclear power plant,
it would be unfair to the
iranians, because they say --
what they say, is that they want
to build a nuclear power plant
for peaceful reasons, and
president obama -- my friend
president obama says the same
thing.
|
| 00:19:29 | He says if it is for peaceful
means, if this is what is
required, it's very natural for
iran to do that.
|
| 00:19:37 | It's iran's right.
|
| 00:19:39 | That being the case, we have to
work on that premise first.
|
| 00:19:44 | Otherwise, in our region, we are
against nuclear bombs or atomic
ener plants or nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:19:56 | We are against those.
|
| 00:20:00 | On the one hand, if we're asking
iran to do this, if we have --
if there is a nuclear bomb in
israel which is close by, then
what we say doesn't make an
impact, so the steps we take --
what we do must be for all the
countries in the region, turkey
is in a difficult position here.
|
| 00:20:22 | We are very concerned about all
of these developments and we say
to iran that they should not be
involved in this kind of an
effort because we are against
weapons -- nuclear weapons, but
energy for peaceful means --
yes, that --
>> Charlie: As you know, the
argument made is while the delay
and the delay and the delay that
iran is getting closer and
closer and closer to the
capacity to have nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:20:50 | And the president of the united
states has said by the end of
the year, which is soon, they
have to make a decision.
|
| 00:20:58 | >> Dick: Well, we say in
turkish, what is it that we're
trying to do?
|
| 00:21:05 | Take the benefits of and make
use of those benefits of a
situation?
|
| 00:21:09 | Or to try to kill the guard in
the vineyard?
|
| 00:21:12 | Are we trying to eat the grapes?
|
| 00:21:15 | Are we trying to beat the guard?
|
| 00:21:17 | In other words, what we're
trying to do is to make use of
the opportunities that are
presented to us.
|
| 00:21:25 | What do we have in front of us?
|
| 00:21:27 | We have at this point energy
production for peaceful means.
|
| 00:21:32 | We are talking hypothetically
about what is not yet there, and
this is the only thing the whole
world is focused on, and I think
this is wrong.
|
| 00:21:38 | It should not be our single,
only focus.
|
| 00:21:43 | We have to understand that --
for example, the united nations
security council is talking
about the prevention of
proliferation of nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:21:54 | Now, all the permanent members.
|
| 00:21:56 | Do they have nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:21:57 | Yes.
|
| 00:22:02 | Have they started eliminating
the nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:22:04 | They have decided on it, and the
u.s. -- they have come together.
|
| 00:22:08 | This is a very good development,
but those things have to keep
moving forward, and if that
happens, this will also have
other countries give up on
perhaps their plans and it will
prevent others from moving in
that direction, and I think we
need this kind of an effort for
global peace.
|
| 00:22:26 | >> Charlie: There is no doubt in
your mind iran would like to
have nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:22:36 | >> Let me say the following.
|
| 00:22:44 | We say that we should leave --
when you have a payroll, there
are columns on the payroll and
people say there is a section
"
we always say that we should
leave that section blank,
meaning that in the future you
don't know what may happen so
you never say two plus two is
four.
|
| 00:23:01 | You leave that section blank to
see what happens because social
events, political events,
change.
|
| 00:23:07 | It's not pure math we're talking
about, so we cannot say for
certain what's going to happen
in the future.
|
| 00:23:15 | Things may develop.
|
| 00:23:17 | Circumstances may develop in
different directions.
|
| 00:23:20 | Things that do not -- countries
don't have today, they may have
them later, but what we see,
what we're told is that the
program is definitely for
peaceful means, and therefore,
we do not want to contemplate
other options other than
diplomatic ones, and the reason
has already suffered a lot
because of events in the past.
|
| 00:23:47 | There should not be new
developments in that area.
|
| 00:23:51 | >> Charlie: President
ahmadinejad.
|
| 00:23:53 | Do you agree with his views on
the holocaust?
|
| 00:23:56 | >> I don't share those views,
and I say this, I think, for
israel.
|
| 00:24:06 | We sometimes see their leaders
speaking to some of these
issues.
|
| 00:24:12 | I consider those rhetorics more
domestic-oriented,
public-opinion oriented.
|
| 00:24:18 | Israel is doing the same.
|
| 00:24:19 | Some other countries in the
world are also doing the same.
|
| 00:24:24 | I think these are all more
rhetoric for their own public
opinion, and people should not
do that because if we want to
see the 21st century as a
century of peace, then everyone
should be focusing on messages
on peace, not such words or
language which is more -- giving
more incitement towards war and
violence.
|
| 00:24:49 | We should not be talking about
war, we should be talking about
peace.
|
| 00:24:56 | We do not want to see more money
going into arms, we want to see
more money going into health,
education, infrastructure,
that's what we should be talking
about.
|
| 00:25:06 | One billion people are hungry in
the world.
|
| 00:25:07 | Those are the kinds of things we
should be focusing on.
|
| 00:25:10 | >> Charlie: Talk about turkey's
foreign policy.
|
| 00:25:13 | There are those who argue that
one result of the effort to
become part of the european
union and the way that has
unfolded is that turkey now
cares less about europe and is
looking eastward.
|
| 00:25:33 | And its relationship with iran,
and with syria, and the northern
tier of the middle east.
|
| 00:25:46 | >> Dick: Let me say that it has
nothing to do with what they
say.
|
| 00:25:50 | Syria is a neighboring country.
|
| 00:25:51 | We have a border which is 780
kilometers in length.
|
| 00:25:57 | With iraq, 400 kilometers, and
with iran, we have about 350
kilometers of a border.
|
| 00:26:04 | These are neighboring countries
with whom we share history.
|
| 00:26:11 | We have never seen in the west
an alternative to the east or
the east an alternative the west
or the north an alternative to
the south or vice versa -- we
are going through what you might
call a normalization process in
our relations.
|
| 00:26:27 | Our goal is never to lose one
relationship while we improve
another one.
|
| 00:26:33 | We would like to have relations
in all directions and we would
like to develop those relations,
and we will continue to do that
in the future.
|
| 00:26:40 | , we find the
to turkey
as being wrong because they have
been keeping us waiting for last
50 years.
|
| 00:26:49 | For the last 50 years, we have
been working on fulfilling our
responsibilities.
|
| 00:26:55 | We have done many -- we have
accomplished many of them, but
there are 10's of countries
which have already been made
member throughout the course of
those years and some of those
countries are really
incomparable to what turkey has
achieved as far as adopting --
they have already become member
but turkey is still being kept
waiting at the door -- the
excuse being that turkey is a
big country with a big
population and turkey will be a
burden.
|
| 00:27:24 | Turkey is not there to be a
burden.
|
| 00:27:26 | Turkey is going out there to
share the burden of the e.u.
|
| 00:27:33 | has different ideas
about turkey's accession they
should be up front about it.
|
| 00:27:40 | There are five million turks
living there.
|
| 00:27:42 | We're already in europe.
|
| 00:27:43 | >> Charlie: The president of
france is frank about it and the
president and the chancellor of
germany is frank about it.
|
| 00:27:48 | They're opposed to it.
|
| 00:27:56 | >> Yes, but they talk about
privileged partnership.
|
| 00:27:58 | This is what they say.
|
| 00:28:00 | They're not saying we don't want
turkey or we don't want turkey
as a member.
|
| 00:28:04 | They talk of a privileged
partnership.
|
| 00:28:07 | there is no
terminology called privileged
partnership.
|
| 00:28:11 | There is no such association.
|
| 00:28:15 | The president before president
sarkozy was president.
|
| 00:28:24 | Before mer12k3we8 kel.
|
| 00:28:28 | To have some sort of consistency
-- before merkel.
|
| 00:28:35 | To have some sort of
consistency, there is the issue
of those countries standing by
their commitments.
|
| 00:28:41 | France and germany are not
keeping to their prior
commitments, and when they use
such terms, then there is no
corresponding terminology in the
legislation itself.
|
| 00:28:56 | do
not agree with their views,
great britain, spain and others.
|
| 00:29:02 | >> Charlie: For the record,
president obama is supportive of
turkey's admission into the
european union.
|
| 00:29:08 | >> Yes.
|
| 00:29:08 | >> Charlie: This is from "the
economist" magazine that is
december 5th-11th, and this is
what it said.
|
| 00:29:15 | Under a story, it says, "testy
erdogan," it says this about
you.
|
| 00:29:21 | erdogan's coziness with
iran and sudan plus his salvos
against israel feed claims that
he is an islamist firebrand at
heart.
|
| 00:29:32 | His behavior has spawned a
flurry of hand-wringing in the
west.
|
| 00:29:40 | >> Well, that's the writer.
|
| 00:29:42 | It's his opinion.
|
| 00:29:43 | It's not my opinion.
|
| 00:29:53 | I am the prime minister of a
country which is muslim, yes,
but that doesn't prevent me from
establishing dialogue with
countries which are
predominantly christian, and
this is -- I don't know why and
how they wrote this and why they
wrote this.
|
| 00:30:14 | He should test himself first.
|
| 00:30:17 | He should perhaps correct
himself, his way of thinking.
|
| 00:30:22 | Perhaps he should meet tayyip
erdogan, and if he doesn't have
motives he would change what he
wrote.
|
| 00:30:37 | I am part of this modern world,
and I think that he should also
be respecting us because we have
47% of the vote in a country
with 72 million people, and we
have 65% of the seats in the
parliament.
|
| 00:30:56 | I am the leader of this
political party, and people
cannot be decisive by just what
one column or one article.
|
| 00:31:04 | >> Charlie: This is the second
one.
|
| 00:31:06 | Turkey has finally shrugged off
the straitjacket of a tight
american alliance, grown
virtually indifferent to
european membership and turned
its focus toward its former
ottoman neighbors in asia and
the mideast.
|
| 00:31:26 | >> I don't think that one should
focus too much on these articles
in the medium.
|
| 00:31:31 | Isn't the united states
establishing relations with all
the countries in the world?
|
| 00:31:37 | So why shouldn't turkey do the
same?
|
| 00:31:43 | We have started developing
relations with countries in our
region, even in other places --
latin america, south america,
china, russia, we're developing
all of those relations,
including those with the united
states, so those should also be
talked of.
|
| 00:32:02 | All of those relations are a
part of role and relationship,
network, so there is no
discrimination one way or
another.
|
| 00:32:11 | It's very wrong to say that we
focus on our relations with the
islamic world only.
|
| 00:32:17 | This is very, very wrong.
|
| 00:32:18 | If we look at our relations --
economic relations, for example,
commercial relations, most of
those are with the western
countries.
|
| 00:32:27 | And I think that one should know
that and writing those articles
are in my opinion intentional
and I really do not agree with
them.
|
| 00:32:36 | >> Charlie: Their intent is
what, do you think?
|
| 00:32:45 | >> Turkey is growing.
|
| 00:32:46 | Is developing.
|
| 00:32:52 | And there is also a lot of
disinformation, which is very
system systematic, very
coordinated.
|
| 00:33:00 | It could be against the party
that I represent, or against me,
or there could be other
interests at play.
|
| 00:33:09 | Because in my own country, too,
there are people who do not
succeed in getting what they
want or doing what they want so
they may be involved, and so --
but I think that the political
-- political power, I think that
these are not going to take away
from the respect that we have
vis-a-vis the people.
|
| 00:33:38 | >> Charlie: Nothing has changed
in your attitude expressed to me
before, numerous times that you
believed turkey can be a bridge
to the islamic world.
|
| 00:33:51 | >> No, no change.
|
| 00:33:53 | In other words, I'll say it
again, there is the islamic
5 billion people and
turkey between that world and
the western world could be an
important bridge as a democratic
secular social state respecting
the rule of law, and turkey
could you serve as a very
important bridge.
|
| 00:34:12 | And turkey is perhaps the
country that is best placed to
do that.
|
| 00:34:18 | How is turkey to do that?
|
| 00:34:20 | zapatero,
we are involved in the alliance
for civilized nations, sponsors
of the alliance of civilizations
and there are more than 100
countries and institutions which
are part of the alliance of
civilizations.
|
| 00:34:35 | There is the friends of the
alliance of civilizations group
which is growing every day, and
the place to develop this
, and it's
so very clear -- turkey is the
only muslim nation in nato, in
, same thing, so all
of these are facts.
|
| 00:34:57 | So there may be some who feel
imposed to create some sort of a
characterization on turkey, but
that could perhaps be based on
some interest on their part.
|
| 00:35:08 | I don't think it's anything
else.
|
| 00:35:09 | >> Charlie: Who speaks for the
islamic world today?
|
| 00:35:23 | >> I think no one has the
ability to speak for the islamic
world.
|
| 00:35:28 | This can't be.
|
| 00:35:29 | Withible the islamic world there
are leaders and they have their
organizations such as the
alliance of countries, there are
other groups like the arab
league and other organizations
like the arab league, and we
have other groups and formations
that are nongovernmental
organizations -- international
institutions, so these different
groups and organizations which
develop ideas, but it's not this
person or that person.
|
| 00:35:59 | There is no such authority given
to any one person, and this is
not something that is considered
-- I don't think that this is
true for the western world
either.
|
| 00:36:10 | There is no such thing there
either.
|
| 00:36:13 | >> Charlie: Some have asked me
this question, and I want to ask
it of you.
|
| 00:36:17 | Why the leadership within the
islamic world -- whether
religious or especially
religious hasn't spoken out
against suicide when the
violence is often against other
muslims?
|
| 00:36:38 | >> I am sorry to hear you say
that, because it's not a
question of a moslem attacking a
moslem -- it's not that.
|
| 00:36:49 | If a moslem is attacking a
christian, it's all the same.
|
| 00:36:53 | It should all be condemned.
|
| 00:36:58 | Because I am a moslem, and no
moslem can tolerate the killing
of another human being, because
the meaning of the word "islam"
is peace.
|
| 00:37:14 | The name "islam" means peace.
|
| 00:37:20 | So the religion takes its
strength from peace, so how
could it allow the killing of
people?
|
| 00:37:26 | In our religion, the killing of
one person is like killing all
humanity, it is such an
important issue, and I do not
believe that any monotheistic
religion would allow the killing
of people.
|
| 00:37:43 | I have never read it anywhere, i
have never learned this -- in
islam, it is the same.
|
| 00:37:47 | It is certainly, definitely not
the case that islam would allow
the killing of people.
|
| 00:37:51 | It is condemned.
|
| 00:37:53 | It is god which has created us
all, and god has condemned this
and all the people who are
engaged in killing condemned, no
matter who they are, where they
are, when the twin towers were
hit, I was one of the first
leaders to come out and speak
against that attack.
|
| 00:38:21 | And tattoo, we condemned those
terrorists and the terror, and
we say that the terrorists do
not recognize any borders,
religion, race, language, for
instance in istanbul there is a
gang, and they attacked
churches, synagogues, banks, and
when those attacks took place i
visited the chief rabbi.
|
| 00:38:48 | I was the first turkish prime
minister in the history of the
republic of turkey to visit the
chief rabbi.
|
| 00:38:55 | I went to see our jewish
citizens who were wounded in the
attack in the hospitals.
|
| 00:39:00 | I visited them one by one.
|
| 00:39:02 | Why?
|
| 00:39:02 | Because I have a responsibility.
|
| 00:39:03 | They are my citizens.
|
| 00:39:06 | The fact that they are jewish
doesn't make a difference to me.
|
| 00:39:11 | I do not consider them as being
separate from the moslems living
in my nation, in my country.
|
| 00:39:17 | I feel the same sort of
responsibility to all of them,
be they jewish, moslem,
christian.
|
| 00:39:23 | This is what my religion
requires.
|
| 00:39:25 | Not only that, I am the leader
of a democratic secular social
state respecting the rule of
law, and it is part of my
understanding, as such, that i
feel that responsibility and i
would feel that responsibility
for the future too.
|
| 00:39:42 | And I was -- as you know, mayor
of istanbul.
|
| 00:39:47 | In istanbul, there is a place
from the ottoman times which
means it's the place for the
people in need.
|
| 00:40:00 | And there are orphans and people
who are in need, disabled, who
stay -- people with disabilities
who stay there, and it was the
ottoman sultan who had that
institution built during ottoman
empire.
|
| 00:40:18 | At the time, there are, of
course, jewish people and
christians who are in need and
they stay as well.
|
| 00:40:24 | There is within that facility
there is a mosque, a synagogue
and a monastery all inside the
facility.
|
| 00:40:30 | When I became mayor of istanbul,
I saw that the buildings needed
some restoring because there was
humidity and so on.
|
| 00:40:41 | So I started talking to
religious leaders and I asked
them to help us so that we could
develop the project so that we
could restore those buildings,
and all of those buildings were
restored.
|
| 00:40:54 | And we have built a new --
another building and again, in
the same building we have the
three places of worship.
|
| 00:41:02 | This is our understanding.
|
| 00:41:04 | This is our approach.
|
| 00:41:05 | In van -- in the city of van, to
the east of turkey, there is a
lake called the van lake and
there is a lake, and there is an
ottoman church there which was
in -- there was an armenian
church and we used treasury
money to restore the armenian
church and we have always been
active in these
responsibilities.
|
| 00:41:30 | >> Charlie: Speaking of the
armenian church, there is now an
agreement between turkey and
armenia.
|
| 00:41:37 | What is necessary in order to --
what more evidence does history
need with respect to the
genocide?
|
| 00:41:50 | >> Let me first of all say that
you say of genocide, speak of
genocide.
|
| 00:41:55 | I would be sorry to hear you say
that.
|
| 00:41:57 | I can say very clearly that we
do not accept genocide.
|
| 00:42:02 | This is completely a lie.
|
| 00:42:06 | I invite people to prove it.
|
| 00:42:10 | I wrote a letter in 2005 and i
said that this is not up to
politicians, it is up to
historians to look into this.
|
| 00:42:17 | We have opened our archives.
|
| 00:42:18 | We have all the documents there.
|
| 00:42:25 | And in our archives more than
one million documents were
already looked at today -- even
more than that.
|
| 00:42:35 | And we have opened the archives
of the military and I asked the
armenian side to open their
archives and third countries, we
made a call for that too so
people could look into all of
these documents and we could all
decide and see what's going on,
but it's -- this is not about
lobbying and going to
politicians and asking them to
take certain decisions.
|
| 00:42:56 | This is not really the way to
go.
|
| 00:43:01 | Something like this is really
not possible, and there is no
truth to it.
|
| 00:43:06 | >> Charlie: Did president obama
bring it up with you?
|
| 00:43:08 | Has he discussed it with you?
|
| 00:43:14 | >> I have spoken with him, yes.
|
| 00:43:19 | Of course, this most recent
normalization process between
turkey and armenia is important.
|
| 00:43:27 | This was the context in which we
discussed these issues and let
me say to the normalization
process.
|
| 00:43:32 | It was turkey that initiated the
normalization process.
|
| 00:43:38 | Turkey took upon itself the
risk.
|
| 00:43:39 | We believe in ourselves.
|
| 00:43:40 | What we would like to see is for
this normalization process to go
forward and in that, it's
important that the karavak be
resolved.
|
| 00:43:56 | There is an occupation.
|
| 00:43:57 | There are three countries
involved -- united states,
russian federation and france.
|
| 00:44:03 | The minesk group, why hasn't it
solved the problem in the last
20 years?
|
| 00:44:09 | Once that problem is solved then
that region will be a region of
peace.
|
| 00:44:13 | Why?
|
| 00:44:14 | Because once the problem between
azerbaijan and armenia is
solved, that hatred is going to
dissipate.
|
| 00:44:22 | There is the decision of the
united nations security council
which will be implemented and
the problems between turkey and
armenia will definitely be
resolved, I believe in it but at
the moment, you have the u.s.
|
| 00:44:36 | Congress here, and the u.s.
|
| 00:44:39 | Congress doesn't have direct
relations with our region.
|
| 00:44:42 | We are there in that region.
|
| 00:44:44 | We have direct relations.
|
| 00:44:45 | We have direct issues.
|
| 00:44:50 | And it's the turkish parliament
who has to make a decision on
this agreement between turkey
and armenia.
|
| 00:44:56 | They have to approve it.
|
| 00:44:58 | Of course, the turkish
parliament too is very sensitive
about this issue, and if the
positive developments that we
would like to see do not come
about, then I do not believe
that our parliament will have a
positive result as a result of
its deliberations.
|
| 00:45:16 | We will have a secret ballot,
but I don't believe that without
any other positive developments
there will be a positive
outcome.
|
| 00:45:24 | >> Charlie: Are there any
misconceptions about turkey that
in any way restrict your
ambitions for your country?
|
| 00:45:39 | >> No doubt.
|
| 00:45:40 | There are misconceptions for
almost all countries in the
world.
|
| 00:45:49 | For example, isn't there
anti-americanism in some
countries around the world, or
sentiments around russia or
china?
|
| 00:45:55 | We're talking about the leading
countries in the world, india,
the same is true for indand
there may be opposing views and
groups.
|
| 00:46:08 | What's important is how you
minimize that.
|
| 00:46:10 | I don't mean to say that one
could remove all of those views
and opinions or approaches.
|
| 00:46:17 | There is going to be some --
there has got to be some sort of
a solidarty.
|
| 00:46:24 | The united nations.
|
| 00:46:26 | Why is it there?
|
| 00:46:27 | The united nations is an
umbrella for all the countries,
but to all countries respect
each other even though they are
?
|
| 00:46:37 | You hear all sorts of speeches
being made.
|
| 00:46:39 | Some people are unhappy with it,
and you look at the u.n.
|
| 00:46:43 | Security council, there are 15
countries, five permanent, 10
temporary, and they too, amongst
themselves, sometimes oppose
each other.
|
| 00:46:52 | Some of them agree on some
issues.
|
| 00:46:56 | So I don't believe that we
should feel uncomfortable with
some negative approaches.
|
| 00:47:01 | What's important is to deal with
them, to try to minimize -- it's
very important to take these
issues up.
|
| 00:47:08 | >> Charlie: What do you see in
achieving those ambitions and
objectives the biggest challenge
for you?
|
| 00:47:15 | To see turkey play the role in
the world that it wants to play.
|
| 00:47:23 | >> The biggest challenge, of
course, is that I think that
we're not too good in public
diplomacy.
|
| 00:47:30 | We need to develop our public
diplomacy.
|
| 00:47:33 | We need to develop the way we
can disseminate information.
|
| 00:47:36 | I see that this is a weakness
which we have to work on, and we
are working on it.
|
| 00:47:42 | But I would also like to say
that leaders should never abuse
prejudice that may exist in
people.
|
| 00:47:53 | The leaders should not exploit
the prejudice that people may
have.
|
| 00:47:57 | If they do that, then it's very
difficult to reverse certain
policies and actions.
|
| 00:48:03 | This is what we are trying to
make sure we don't do.
|
| 00:48:07 | To give you an example, basis
for xenophobia.
|
| 00:48:14 | Xenophobia is something that we
see in many developed countries
in the world.
|
| 00:48:20 | Unfortunately.
|
| 00:48:21 | Unfortunately.
|
| 00:48:23 | For example, after the twin
towers were hit, this is also
being seen in the u.s.
|
| 00:48:31 | In europe, we see in many
countries -- in germany and
france problems.
|
| 00:48:38 | In switzerland, most recently,i
have expressed that antisemitism
is a crime against humanity, one
of the first leaders and I still
believe this, antisemitism is a
crime against humanity and I say
this everywhere.
|
| 00:48:56 | In the islamic world, everywhere
I go, I make this statement.
|
| 00:49:02 | But I also say that islamophobia
is a crime against humanity.
|
| 00:49:08 | Islamophobia is a crime against
humanity, and every country must
explain -- must understand this,
and to characterize terrorism
with the word "islam" is not
something that any intellectual
should be doing, but there have
been times when, even in the
united states, too, we have
heard people speak of islamic
terrorism but no, never, because
islam has never accepted or
approved terrorism.
|
| 00:49:47 | There could be terrorists who
may adhere to any faith, it
could be jewish or christian or
moslem.
|
| 00:49:57 | It will happen in the future.
|
| 00:49:58 | And I think the media and the
press have a lot of
responsibility in making that
careful distinction, but
unfortunately, most haven't done
that.
|
| 00:50:07 | Some have tried to be careful
and to make that distinction but
on the other hand there have
been others who have really put
more fire -- more fuel in the
fire, and that has created a lot
of concern in the islamic world.
|
| 00:50:21 | You know all the events in the
netherlands, in belgium, in
denmark and most recently in
switzerland.
|
| 00:50:33 | Because people are born with
certain rights and those cannot
be taken -- you can't take right
to life to put right to life to
referendum or freedom of
religion.
|
| 00:50:45 | These are fundamental rights,
freedoms.
|
| 00:50:48 | They cannot be voted upon.
|
| 00:50:49 | Those are rights for people.
|
| 00:50:51 | They are born with.
|
| 00:50:52 | These are not acquired rights.
|
| 00:50:58 | Unfortunately, however, in the
middle of modern europe, in
switzerland, we could see such a
vote taking place, and I hope
that this will change and that
we don't see this happening
anywhere in the world.
|
| 00:51:14 | >> Charlie: When the president
looks at al qaeda and argues
that al qaeda is a terrorist
organization, it is primarily --
if not totally an organization
of people who are muslims,
correct?
|
| 00:51:34 | I am asking you to say to me,
how do we define that?
|
| 00:51:39 | How do you look at that
particular issue?
|
| 00:51:57 | >> I have said before, if I say
I am moslem and I have authority
to act in the name of islam that
doesn't mean I have the
authority.
|
| 00:52:06 | Ien how many people they are and
when they come together, and
they are engaging in some action
and they have threatened us too
from time to time and they
threaten -- and these are a
fact, but I have to say, once
again, that islam -- islam never
allows this kind of an
understanding.
|
| 00:52:31 | Islam does not accept terrorism,
does not allow terrorism.
|
| 00:52:38 | If you kill defenseless people,
and there is organizations in
different religions, and people
are organized everywhere in the
world, irrespective of what
religion they come from, if
they're engaged in terrorist
activity they're terrorists,
they're killing women, children,
elderly, defenseless people, why
are they killing those people?
|
| 00:53:02 | What is their sin?
|
| 00:53:09 | They hit towers, and why?
|
| 00:53:11 | They are all terrorists.
|
| 00:53:15 | These are all terrorist actions,
and as I said before, terrorism
does not recognize any homeland,
religion, race, language.
|
| 00:53:22 | This is our understanding of
what terrorism is.
|
| 00:53:28 | >> Charlie: Do you believe the
-turkish relationship is
growing?
|
| 00:53:33 | Is getting better?
|
| 00:53:34 | Is taking on new dimensions?
|
| 00:53:44 | >> This model partnership -- the
model cooperation that I have
spoken about is important, and i
am very hopeful that there will
be new developments, and
yesterday, the very first
meeting was held.
|
| 00:53:59 | And I think that in the future
there will be a lot of contacts.
|
| 00:54:06 | Our foreign ministers also will
keep this cooperation close, and
we hope to continue to further
deepen and trenthen our
friendship and cooperation.
|
| 00:54:17 | This will be what we will try to
do, and we can say that there is
the political will on both sides
to take these relations further
because I think that turkey
needs the u.s. and the u.s.
|
| 00:54:31 | Needs turkey for international
and regional issues, and there
are many, many things we can do
together.
|
| 00:54:36 | >> Charlie: Thank you for your
time.
|
| 00:54:38 | >> Thank you very much, and
thank you to everyone who has
been watching us.
|
| 00:54:44 | I greet them all.
|
| 00:54:45 | Thank you.
|
| 00:54:45 | >> Charlie: Our thanks to the
prime minister for an
opportunity to learn more about
turkey and its role and its
foreign policy.
|
| 00:54:53 | Tomorrow night on this program
we'll have an hour conversation
with general stanley mcchrystal.
|
| 00:54:58 | See you then.
|
| 00:55:03 | Captioning sponsored by
Rose communications
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:55:21 | ♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:55:22 | ♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:55:22 | ♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:00:00 | Countries.
|
| 00:00:06 | So if we -- if there are
problems, then this would be a
major difficulty for turkey in
the region.
|
| 00:00:21 | So diplomatically speaking, we
would think there could be
problems if other methods are
resorted to.
|
| 00:00:31 | We think that diplomacy is what
we have to do, that's what we
have to do because I don't think
diplomacy has been exhausted
yet.
|
| 00:00:40 | We said it in iraq as well.
|
| 00:00:45 | We should use diplomacy, and we
should not lose the people there
-- the country there.
|
| 00:00:51 | >> Charlie: Prime minister
erdogan of turkey for the hour.
|
| 00:00:53 | Coming up.
|
| 00:00:57 | funding for "charlie
rose" has been provided by the
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| 00:01:11 | >> Additional funding for
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| 00:01:29 | ♪♪ ♪♪
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| 00:01:29 | ♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:01:32 | >> from our studios in new y
Captioning sponsored by
Rose communications
from our studios in new york
city, this is charlie rose.
|
| 00:01:42 | >> Prime minister recep tayyip
erdogan in the united states for
meetings with president obama,
members of the administration
and members of congress.
|
| 00:01:49 | Turkey is an important american
ally.
|
| 00:01:51 | It is playing an increasing role
in its region, it is already a
member of nato and wants to be a
men union.
|
| 00:01:58 | I am pleased to sit down with
the prime minister here and talk
about the issues of mutual
concern and the role that turkey
can play.
|
| 00:02:07 | Tell me what you hope to get on
this visit from the president.
|
| 00:02:15 | >> Well, let me start by
thanking you as well.
|
| 00:02:21 | It's very good to be here.
|
| 00:02:26 | The most important goal in this
visit was that, as you will
know, president obama visited
turkey during his first overseas
visit, and during that visit he
characterized the relationship
between turkey and the united
states as a model partnership,
which is a new characterization
of our relationship, because it
used to be a strategic
partnership.
|
| 00:03:01 | Now what we have to do now is
talk about how we can add more
meaning to what it really means
to have a model partnership.
|
| 00:03:08 | In this visit, our aim has been
to start forming a model
cooperation effort to add
meaning to the model
partnership, and are that, the
, for its part, has tasked
two high-level officials and i
have given the responsibility to
two ministers to have a
bilateral meeting which took
place for the first time
yesterday, and the goal of this
group working together is to
look at areas of economic
cooperation, scientific
cooperation, cooperation in the
area of arts and politics,
military areas, technology,
high-tech included, so these are
the areas of cooperation we are
working on, and also, of course,
regional issues and global
issues, and the cooperation
between turkey and the united
states in those areas are all
part and parcel of this effort,
and we're looking to see how we
can move forward in our
collaborative efforts and also,
of course, more importantly,
perhaps, is fighting against
terrorism, because in my own
country we are working in this
area and we are looking to see
how we can further develop our
cooperation, because when i
visited here on 5th of november,
2007, we had said with president
bush at the time, and there was
a statement made after that
meeting where we said that the
, that there is an
organization in common, turkey
and iraq, and we are trying to
keep working in furthering our
efforts in fighting against
terrorism.
|
| 00:04:48 | We also have collaboration in
afghanistan.
|
| 00:04:51 | We have also worked together in
iraq on issues regarding the
middle east, and we also are
looking at what we can do about
the nuclear program in iran, so
these are the issues we covered.
|
| 00:05:04 | Also, the process of
normalization between turkey and
armenia was another issue which
we had time to evaluate.
|
| 00:05:12 | We also discussed cyprus.
|
| 00:05:14 | These have been, in general,
issues that we have focused on,
and also we talked about
fighting drug trafficking, for
example.
|
| 00:05:25 | Those are the kinds of issues we
discussed.
|
| 00:05:27 | >> Charlie: Let me begin with
each one of those.
|
| 00:05:29 | First, afghanistan.
|
| 00:05:33 | Will you send more troops from
turkey to afghanistan?
|
| 00:05:37 | And will they play a combat
role?
|
| 00:05:45 | >> Before all this most recent
discussion about afghanistan
began, we were already very much
involved with afghanistan.
|
| 00:05:53 | Turkey has taken over the
command of the forces there, so
we had already sent troops to
afghanistan before these current
discussions.
|
| 00:06:02 | We had 750 troops up until a few
months ago which we increased to
1,750, to about 1,800, and
additionally, I have also made
the following proposal to the
president.
|
| 00:06:19 | About establishing the afghan
national army.
|
| 00:06:22 | We have provided a lot of
training up until today, and we
would like to continue with
providing training, not just in
turkey, which is what we used to
do but we also now want to have
a center in afghanistan where we
can continue with training
troops, and if we could train
two battalions in two months, we
would then be able to train 12
battalions, and that would mean
that we would send some
officials to provide the
training and the second area of
training we can focus on is
police training, and that's also
very important in afghanistan.
|
| 00:07:01 | So these are the things that we
can do.
|
| 00:07:04 | Another thing that we're doing
which we can continue to do is
work -- provisional
reconstruction teamwork.
|
| 00:07:11 | We have made so far an
investment of $50 million and
there has been another request
for $40 million, and we could
increase that to about $50
million.
|
| 00:07:27 | We're making investments, but we
can also continue to develop
this investment in the north.
|
| 00:07:33 | So those are the efforts that we
engage in.
|
| 00:07:40 | Now, at the beginning of the
20th century, under the
leadership of -- turks were
involved in establishing the
afghan national army so now what
we can do is to try to help that
effort again so that the afghan
army and afghanistan is
self-sufficient in its own
defense and I think that we can
achieve this.
|
| 00:08:03 | >> Charlie: Why no combat
troops?
|
| 00:08:09 | >> From the very beginning, our
agreement has been that we
should take upon ourselves the
responsibilities that I have
just described.
|
| 00:08:25 | We are predominantly a muslim
nation and so is afghanistan, so
if we do something that will
create an issue with the trust
that the afghan people have in
us, then many things would be
more difficult to do because
right now we are providing a lot
of service and the people trust
us, so we have to keep in this
role and we have to keep working
on those areas we work in, so we
have specifically chosen this
format because the conditions in
that area require us to do that,
and these are the steps that we
can take, and I think that this
will also help build a sounder
future for afghanistan.
|
| 00:09:19 | Of course, as part of nato.
|
| 00:09:20 | >> Charlie: The goal of the
president's strategy is to build
a strong resistance to the
taliban so that it does not
offer a safe haven.
|
| 00:09:31 | Do you think that's possible in
the time frame that the
president has outlined?
|
| 00:09:42 | >> Now, these kinds of things
cannot really be calculated like
a math problem, because these
things -- many things can go
wrong, and in politics and in
these kinds of efforts two plus
two don't always make four.
|
| 00:09:58 | Things could change because
circumstances may change but the
roadmap must be well planned.
|
| 00:10:03 | The calendar may change, and if
something goes wrong and your
calendar doesn't turn out to be
accurate, then there could be
more problems.
|
| 00:10:14 | So I think the basis of what the
roadmap is is what's more
important.
|
| 00:10:18 | That's what one has to focus on,
and if that roadmap can be
implemented in collaboration
with the people in that region,
then the results can be very
good, and this is what we're
trying to do too.
|
| 00:10:36 | I never -- seen in the history
of afghanistan that many -- many
leading countries have had
problems there.
|
| 00:10:46 | Alexander the great and russia,
and its struggles in afghanistan
-- we all know about them.
|
| 00:10:51 | We have to make sure that it
doesn't repeat itself, and we
have to draw lessons from the
past.
|
| 00:11:00 | The british have had their
experiences in the region.
|
| 00:11:03 | The geography in afghanistan is
very unique.
|
| 00:11:05 | Very different.
|
| 00:11:06 | The people there are different.
|
| 00:11:08 | So we have to make sure that we
use our -- the leverages that we
have very carefully, because if
we don't do that, we cannot
achieve the kind of effort to
resolve, and I think this will
have an impact on the process as
a whole.
|
| 00:11:24 | >> Charlie: You mean the
leverage of turkey?
|
| 00:11:27 | Or the leverage of all of the
forces fighting against the
taliban in afghanistan?
|
| 00:11:42 | >> What turkey can do here is
different in nature, so it must
be understood well, so when i
say leverage, this is what i
mean -- what can be done.
|
| 00:11:59 | When you speak of troops,
everyone should understand that
the troops -- when you speak of
troops, they're the combat
forces.
|
| 00:12:10 | You don't have any other type --
but then again, there are some
who have logistical
responsibilities but in essence,
all troops are combat troops.
|
| 00:12:24 | We have to make sure we win the
hearts of the people in
afghanistan too so the forces
should be welcomed in
afghanistan.
|
| 00:12:30 | There may be places in some
areas where people may not
welcome or look favorably upon
these forces, but we have to
make sure that there is that
connection with the people and
the troops, so it's very
important to consider that if
this is not done properly, then
we may not get the results we're
looking for, so that's what we
have to focus on.
|
| 00:12:52 | That's what we're focusing on
and that's why we believe in the
future this will be important.
|
| 00:12:57 | >> Charlie: Iran.
|
| 00:12:58 | It is my understanding that the
president would like for you to
play a role in iran.
|
| 00:13:11 | You have called president
ahmadinejad your good friend.
|
| 00:13:14 | What can you do?
|
| 00:13:21 | >> I believe that foreign policy
must be based on making friends
and not enemies.
|
| 00:13:28 | This is what I am trying to do
as a leader.
|
| 00:13:39 | And this is what we're trying to
do with neighboring countries
but then also with countries
that are a little farther away
from us, but what I am trying to
do is to achieve a working
relationship with all leaders.
|
| 00:13:53 | With iran, we have an agreement
dating back to 1639, and we have
a border system, and we have not
had any major problems with iran
since that agreement, and in the
years that have passed and
especially in the last seven
years we have developed our
relations on a sounder basis.
|
| 00:14:19 | I should also say that natural
gas is very important in our
energy supply, and russia is our
first trading partner, and
second trading partner is iran.
|
| 00:14:34 | So we -- I get natural gas from
iran and natural gas is very
important for our
industralization effort.
|
| 00:14:44 | Also, in turkey, many of the
homes also use natural gas, so
52% of our energy comes from
natural gas, so if there is a
difficulty, a problem with that
supply then this would create a
major problem for us in turkey.
|
| 00:15:04 | Our foreign trade with iran at
the end of 2008 is 10 billion
dollars, and our goal in
the next 3-5 years is to
increase it to $30 billion u.s.
|
| 00:15:20 | Dollars.
|
| 00:15:23 | Of course, I have to think of
the best interests of turkey,
and it's very important that we
develop these relations.
|
| 00:15:35 | Of course, when I speak of power
plants here, I'm speaking mostly
of natural-gas-fired power
plants, and this is not achieve
energy -- it's quite expensive
-- this is not a cheap energy,
but we need it because we use
natural gas and this is how we
produce our energy and we
therefore are in great of
natural gas.
|
| 00:15:58 | That's how we have to keep
working on our relations in that
area.
|
| 00:16:03 | On the nuclear program, we
believe that we can play a very
important role between iran and
countries of the world, and i
had said this to president bush
as a friend, and yesterday,
again, as friends with president
obama, we spoke of this and we
have very positive feelings
towards each other -- president
obama considers myself I believe
his friend and so do i, and i
would like to say that here, and
so as my colleague, as my
friend, we are always ready to
play an active role.
|
| 00:16:46 | I would consider it a political
responsibility, and also a
responsibility to achieve world
peace.
|
| 00:16:50 | >> Charlie: Are you saying that
your commercial interests
prevent you from engaging in
sanctions against iran even
though the united states is in
favor, even though russia may
engage, even though china may
engage in sanctions if
everything else fails?
|
| 00:17:20 | >> There is not just the
commercial dimensions.
|
| 00:17:23 | There is also an issue of
principles.
|
| 00:17:28 | We fair the same principlesment
we have a common history,
civilization -- there are many
relations from the past, and we
have a border of 350 kilometers
with iran, so we're two
neighboring countries.
|
| 00:17:49 | So if we -- if there are
problems, then this would be a
major difficulty for turkey in
the region, so diplomatically
speaking, we would think that
there could be problems if other
methods are resorted to.
|
| 00:18:14 | We think that diplomacy is what
we have to do -- that's what we
have to do, because I don't
think diplomacy has been
exhausted yet.
|
| 00:18:24 | We said it in iraq as well, and
we should use diplomacy -- and
we should not lose the people
there, the country there.
|
| 00:18:32 | >> Charlie: What remains to be
done diplomatically?
|
| 00:18:37 | They tried everything.
|
| 00:18:38 | >> Dick: The question to ask is
what has been tried because i
said it, and it should be so.
|
| 00:18:47 | That's not good enough.
|
| 00:18:49 | I think we have to look at what
the other side is saying as well
and respect it.
|
| 00:18:58 | If they say that they need to
get nuclear energy, and if we're
saying that they are trying to
establish a nuclear power plant,
it would be unfair to the
iranians, because they say --
what they say, is that they want
to build a nuclear power plant
for peaceful reasons, and
president obama -- my friend
president obama says the same
thing.
|
| 00:19:26 | He says if it is for peaceful
means, if this is what is
required, it's very natural for
iran to do that.
|
| 00:19:34 | It's iran's right.
|
| 00:19:35 | That being the case, we have to
work on that premise first.
|
| 00:19:40 | Otherwise, in our region, we are
against nuclear bombs or atomic
energy plants or nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:19:53 | We are against those.
|
| 00:19:56 | On the one hand, if we're asking
iran to do this, if we have --
if there is a nuclear bomb in
israel which is close by, then
what we say doesn't make an
impact, so the steps we take --
what we do must be for all the
countries in the region, turkey
is in a difficult position here.
|
| 00:20:19 | We are very concerned about all
of these developments and we say
to iran that they should not be
involved in this kind of an
effort because we are against
weapons -- nuclear weapons, but
energy for peaceful means --
yes, that --
>> Charlie: As you know, the
argument made is while the delay
and the delay and the delay that
iran is getting closer and
closer and closer to the
capacity to have nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:20:47 | And the president of the united
states has said by the end of
the year, which is soon, they
have to make a decision.
|
| 00:20:55 | >> Dick: Well, we say in
turkish, what is it that we're
trying to do?
|
| 00:21:02 | Take the benefits of and make
use of those benefits of a
situation?
|
| 00:21:06 | Or to try to kill the guard in
the vineyard?
|
| 00:21:09 | Are we trying to eat the grapes?
|
| 00:21:12 | Are we trying to beat the guard?
|
| 00:21:13 | In other words, what we're
trying to do is to make use of
the opportunities that are
presented to us.
|
| 00:21:21 | What do we have in front of us?
|
| 00:21:24 | We have at this point energy
production for peaceful means.
|
| 00:21:28 | We are talking hypothetically
about what is not yet there, and
this is the only thing the whole
world is focused on, and I think
this is wrong.
|
| 00:21:35 | It should not be our single,
only focus.
|
| 00:21:40 | We have to understand that --
for example, the united nations
security council is talking
about the prevention of
proliferation of nuclear
weapons.
|
| 00:21:51 | Now, all the permanent members.
|
| 00:21:52 | Do they have nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:21:53 | Yes.
|
| 00:21:58 | Have they started eliminating
the nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:22:01 | They have decided on it, and the
u.s. -- they have come together.
|
| 00:22:05 | This is a very good development,
but those things have to keep
moving forward, and if that
happens, this will also have
other countries give up on
perhaps their plans and it will
prevent others from moving in
that direction, and I think we
need this kind of an effort for
global peace.
|
| 00:22:23 | >> Charlie: There is no doubt in
your mind iran would like to
have nuclear weapons?
|
| 00:22:33 | >> Let me say the following.
|
| 00:22:40 | We say that we should leave --
when you have a payroll, there
are columns on the payroll and
people say there is a section
"
we always say that we should
leave that section blank,
meaning that in the future you
don't know what may happen so
you never say two plus two is
four.
|
| 00:22:58 | You leave that section blank to
see what happens because social
events, political events,
change.
|
| 00:23:04 | It's not pure math we're talking
about, so we cannot say for
certain what's going to happen
in the future.
|
| 00:23:12 | Things may develop.
|
| 00:23:13 | Circumstances may develop in
different directions.
|
| 00:23:17 | Things that do not -- countries
don't have today, they may have
them later, but what we see,
what we're told is that the
program is definitely for
peaceful means, and therefore,
we do not want to contemplate
other options other than
diplomatic ones, and the reason
has already suffered a lot
because of events in the past.
|
| 00:23:43 | There should not be new
developments in that area.
|
| 00:23:48 | >> Charlie: President
ahmadinejad.
|
| 00:23:50 | Do you agree with his views on
the holocaust?
|
| 00:23:53 | >> I don't share those views,
and I say this, I think, for
israel.
|
| 00:24:02 | We sometimes see their leaders
speaking to some of these
issues.
|
| 00:24:09 | I consider those rhetorics more
domestic-oriented,
public-opinion oriented.
|
| 00:24:14 | Israel is doing the same.
|
| 00:24:16 | Some other countries in the
world are also doing the same.
|
| 00:24:21 | I think these are all more
rhetoric for their own public
opinion, and people should not
do that because if we want to
see the 21st century as a
century of peace, then everyone
should be focusing on messages
on peace, not such words or
language which is more -- giving
more incitement towards war and
violence.
|
| 00:24:46 | We should not be talking about
war, we should be talking about
peace.
|
| 00:24:53 | We do not want to see more money
going into arms, we want to see
more money going into health,
education, infrastructure,
that's what we should be talking
about.
|
| 00:25:02 | One billion people are hungry in
the world.
|
| 00:25:04 | Those are the kinds of things we
should be focusing on.
|
| 00:25:07 | >> Charlie: Talk about turkey's
foreign policy.
|
| 00:25:10 | There are those who argue that
one result of the effort to
become part of the european
union and the way that has
unfolded is that turkey now
cares less about europe and is
looking eastward.
|
| 00:25:29 | And its relationship with iran,
and with syria, and the northern
tier of the middle east.
|
| 00:25:43 | >> Dick: Let me say that it has
nothing to do with what they
say.
|
| 00:25:47 | Syria is a neighboring country.
|
| 00:25:48 | We have a border which is 780
kilometers in length.
|
| 00:25:54 | With iraq, 400 kilometers, and
with iran, we have about 350
kilometers of a border.
|
| 00:26:01 | These are neighboring countries
with whom we share history.
|
| 00:26:07 | We have never seen in the west
an alternative to the east or
the east an alternative the west
or the north an alternative to
the south or vice versa -- we
are going through what you might
call a normalization process in
our relations.
|
| 00:26:23 | Our goal is never to lose one
relationship while we improve
another one.
|
| 00:26:29 | We would like to have relations
in all directions and we would
like to develop those relations,
and we will continue to do that
in the future.
|
| 00:26:37 | , we find the
to turkey
as being wrong because they have
been keeping us waiting for last
50 years.
|
| 00:26:45 | For the last 50 years, we have
been working on fulfilling our
responsibilities.
|
| 00:26:52 | We have done many -- we have
accomplished many of them, but
there are 10's of countries
which have already been made
member throughout the course of
those years and some of those
countries are really
incomparable to what turkey has
achieved as far as adopting --
they have already become member
but turkey is still being kept
waiting at the door -- the
excuse being that turkey is a
big country with a big
population and turkey will be a
burden.
|
| 00:27:21 | Turkey is not there to be a
burden.
|
| 00:27:23 | Turkey is going out there to
share the burden of the e.u.
|
| 00:27:30 | has different ideas
about turkey's accession they
should be up front about it.
|
| 00:27:37 | There are five million turks
living there.
|
| 00:27:38 | We're already in europe.
|
| 00:27:40 | >> Charlie: The president of
france is frank about it and the
president and the chancellor of
germany is frank about it.
|
| 00:27:44 | They're opposed to it.
|
| 00:27:53 | >> Yes, but they talk about
privileged partnership.
|
| 00:27:55 | This is what they say.
|
| 00:27:56 | They're not saying we don't want
turkey or we don't want turkey
as a member.
|
| 00:28:01 | They talk of a privileged
partnership.
|
| 00:28:04 | there is no
terminology called privileged
partnership.
|
| 00:28:08 | There is no such association.
|
| 00:28:12 | The president before president
sarkozy was president.
|
| 00:28:20 | Before mer12k3we8 kel.
|
| 00:28:25 | To have some sort of consistency
-- before merkel.
|
| 00:28:32 | To have some sort of
consistency, there is the issue
of those countries standing by
their commitments.
|
| 00:28:37 | France and germany are not
keeping to their prior
commitments, and when they use
such terms, then there is no
corresponding terminology in the
legislation itself.
|
| 00:28:52 | do
not agree with their views,
great britain, spain and others.
|
| 00:28:58 | >> Charlie: For the record,
president obama is supportive of
turkey's admission into the
european union.
|
| 00:29:04 | >> Yes.
|
| 00:29:05 | >> Charlie: This is from "the
economist" magazine that is
december 5th-11th, and this is
what it said.
|
| 00:29:11 | Under a story, it says, "testy
erdogan," it says this about
you.
|
| 00:29:18 | erdogan's coziness with
iran and sudan plus his salvos
against israel feed claims that
he is an islamist firebrand at
heart.
|
| 00:29:29 | His behavior has spawned a
flurry of hand-wringing in the
west.
|
| 00:29:37 | >> Well, that's the writer.
|
| 00:29:39 | It's his opinion.
|
| 00:29:40 | It's not my opinion.
|
| 00:29:50 | I am the prime minister of a
country which is muslim, yes,
but that doesn't prevent me from
establishing dialogue with
countries which are
predominantly christian, and
this is -- I don't know why and
how they wrote this and why they
wrote this.
|
| 00:30:11 | He should test himself first.
|
| 00:30:14 | He should perhaps correct
himself, his way of thinking.
|
| 00:30:19 | Perhaps he should meet tayyip
erdogan, and if he doesn't have
motives he would change what he
wrote.
|
| 00:30:34 | I am part of this modern world,
and I think that he should also
be respecting us because we have
47% of the vote in a country
with 72 million people, and we
have 65% of the seats in the
parliament.
|
| 00:30:53 | I am the leader of this
political party, and people
cannot be decisive by just what
one column or one article.
|
| 00:31:00 | >> Charlie: This is the second
one.
|
| 00:31:02 | Turkey has finally shrugged off
the straitjacket of a tight
american alliance, grown
virtually indifferent to
european membership and turned
its focus toward its former
ottoman neighbors in asia and
the mideast.
|
| 00:31:22 | >> I don't think that one should
focus too much on these articles
in the medium.
|
| 00:31:28 | Isn't the united states
establishing relations with all
the countries in the world?
|
| 00:31:34 | So why shouldn't turkey do the
same?
|
| 00:31:40 | We have started developing
relations with countries in our
region, even in other places --
latin america, south america,
china, russia, we're developing
all of those relations,
including those with the united
states, so those should also be
talked of.
|
| 00:31:59 | All of those relations are a
part of role and relationship,
network, so there is no
discrimination one way or
another.
|
| 00:32:08 | It's very wrong to say that we
focus on our relations with the
islamic world only.
|
| 00:32:13 | This is very, very wrong.
|
| 00:32:15 | If we look at our relations --
economic relations, for example,
commercial relations, most of
those are with the western
countries.
|
| 00:32:24 | And I think that one should know
that and writing those articles
are in my opinion intentional
and I really do not agree with
them.
|
| 00:32:33 | >> Charlie: Their intent is
what, do you think?
|
| 00:32:42 | >> Turkey is growing.
|
| 00:32:43 | Is developing.
|
| 00:32:49 | And there is also a lot of
disinformation, which is very
system systematic, very
coordinated.
|
| 00:32:56 | It could be against the party
that I represent, or against me,
or there could be other
interests at play.
|
| 00:33:05 | Because in my own country, too,
there are people who do not
succeed in getting what they
want or doing what they want so
they may be involved, and so --
but I think that the political
-- political power, I think that
these are not going to take away
from the respect that we have
vis-a-vis the people.
|
| 00:33:34 | >> Charlie: Nothing has changed
in your attitude expressed to me
before, numerous times that you
believed turkey can be a bridge
to the islamic world.
|
| 00:33:47 | >> No, no change.
|
| 00:33:50 | In other words, I'll say it
again, there is the islamic
5 billion people and
turkey between that world and
the western world could be an
important bridge as a democratic
secular social state respecting
the rule of law, and turkey
could you serve as a very
important bridge.
|
| 00:34:09 | And turkey is perhaps the
country that is best placed to
do that.
|
| 00:34:15 | How is turkey to do that?
|
| 00:34:17 | zapatero,
we are involved in the alliance
for civilized nations, sponsors
of the alliance of civilizations
and there are more than 100
countries and institutions which
are part of the alliance of
civilizations.
|
| 00:34:32 | There is the friends of the
alliance of civilizations group
which is growing every day, and
the place to develop this
, and it's
so very clear -- turkey is the
only muslim nation in nato, in
, same thing, so all
of these are facts.
|
| 00:34:53 | So there may be some who feel
imposed to create some sort of a
characterization on turkey, but
that could perhaps be based on
some interest on their part.
|
| 00:35:04 | I don't think it's anything
else.
|
| 00:35:06 | >> Charlie: Who speaks for the
islamic world today?
|
| 00:35:20 | >> I think no one has the
ability to speak for the islamic
world.
|
| 00:35:24 | This can't be.
|
| 00:35:26 | Withible the islamic world there
are leaders and they have their
organizations such as the
alliance of countries, there are
other groups like the arab
league and other organizations
like the arab league, and we
have other groups and formations
that are nongovernmental
organizations -- international
institutions, so these different
groups and organizations which
develop ideas, but it's not this
person or that person.
|
| 00:35:56 | There is no such authority given
to any one person, and this is
not something that is considered
-- I don't think that this is
true for the western world
either.
|
| 00:36:07 | There is no such thing there
either.
|
| 00:36:09 | >> Charlie: Some have asked me
this question, and I want to ask
it of you.
|
| 00:36:14 | Why the leadership within the
islamic world -- whether
religious or especially
religious hasn't spoken out
against suicide when the
violence is often against other
muslims?
|
| 00:36:35 | >> I am sorry to hear you say
that, because it's not a
question of a moslem attacking a
moslem -- it's not that.
|
| 00:36:46 | If a moslem is attacking a
christian, it's all the same.
|
| 00:36:50 | It should all be condemned.
|
| 00:36:54 | Because I am a moslem, and no
moslem can tolerate the killing
of another human being, because
the meaning of the word "islam"
is peace.
|
| 00:37:11 | The name "islam" means peace.
|
| 00:37:16 | So the religion takes its
strength from peace, so how
could it allow the killing of
people?
|
| 00:37:23 | In our religion, the killing of
one person is like killing all
humanity, it is such an
important issue, and I do not
believe that any monotheistic
religion would allow the killing
of people.
|
| 00:37:40 | I have never read it anywhere, i
have never learned this -- in
islam, it is the same.
|
| 00:37:44 | It is certainly, definitely not
the case that islam would allow
the killing of people.
|
| 00:37:48 | It is condemned.
|
| 00:37:50 | It is god which has created us
all, and god has condemned this
and all the people who are
engaged in killing condemned, no
matter who they are, where they
are, when the twin towers were
hit, I was one of the first
leaders to come out and speak
against that attack.
|
| 00:38:17 | And tattoo, we condemned those
terrorists and the terror, and
we say that the terrorists do
not recognize any borders,
religion, race, language, for
instance in istanbul there is a
gang, and they attacked
churches, synagogues, banks, and
when those attacks took place i
visited the chief rabbi.
|
| 00:38:45 | I was the first turkish prime
minister in the history of the
republic of turkey to visit the
chief rabbi.
|
| 00:38:52 | I went to see our jewish
citizens who were wounded in the
attack in the hospitals.
|
| 00:38:57 | I visited them one by one.
|
| 00:38:59 | Why?
|
| 00:38:59 | Because I have a responsibility.
|
| 00:39:00 | They are my citizens.
|
| 00:39:02 | The fact that they are jewish
doesn't make a difference to me.
|
| 00:39:07 | I do not consider them as being
separate from the moslems living
in my nation, in my country.
|
| 00:39:14 | I feel the same sort of
responsibility to all of them,
be they jewish, moslem,
christian.
|
| 00:39:19 | This is what my religion
requires.
|
| 00:39:22 | Not only that, I am the leader
of a democratic secular social
state respecting the rule of
law, and it is part of my
understanding, as such, that i
feel that responsibility and i
would feel that responsibility
for the future too.
|
| 00:39:39 | And I was -- as you know, mayor
of istanbul.
|
| 00:39:44 | In istanbul, there is a place
from the ottoman times which
means it's the place for the
people in need.
|
| 00:39:57 | And there are orphans and people
who are in need, disabled, who
stay -- people with disabilities
who stay there, and it was the
ottoman sultan who had that
institution built during ottoman
empire.
|
| 00:40:15 | At the time, there are, of
course, jewish people and
christians who are in need and
they stay as well.
|
| 00:40:21 | There is within that facility
there is a mosque, a synagogue
and a monastery all inside the
facility.
|
| 00:40:27 | When I became mayor of istanbul,
I saw that the buildings needed
some restoring because there was
humidity and so on.
|
| 00:40:38 | So I started talking to
religious leaders and I asked
them to help us so that we could
develop the project so that we
could restore those buildings,
and all of those buildings were
restored.
|
| 00:40:51 | And we have built a new --
another building and again, in
the same building we have the
three places of worship.
|
| 00:40:58 | This is our understanding.
|
| 00:41:01 | This is our approach.
|
| 00:41:02 | In van -- in the city of van, to
the east of turkey, there is a
lake called the van lake and
there is a lake, and there is an
ottoman church there which was
in -- there was an armenian
church and we used treasury
money to restore the armenian
church and we have always been
active in these
responsibilities.
|
| 00:41:27 | >> Charlie: Speaking of the
armenian church, there is now an
agreement between turkey and
armenia.
|
| 00:41:33 | What is necessary in order to --
what more evidence does history
need with respect to the
genocide?
|
| 00:41:46 | >> Let me first of all say that
you say of genocide, speak of
genocide.
|
| 00:41:51 | I would be sorry to hear you say
that.
|
| 00:41:53 | I can say very clearly that we
do not accept genocide.
|
| 00:41:59 | This is completely a lie.
|
| 00:42:02 | I invite people to prove it.
|
| 00:42:07 | I wrote a letter in 2005 and i
said that this is not up to
politicians, it is up to
historians to look into this.
|
| 00:42:13 | We have opened our archives.
|
| 00:42:15 | We have all the documents there.
|
| 00:42:21 | And in our archives more than
one million documents were
already looked at today -- even
more than that.
|
| 00:42:32 | And we have opened the archives
of the military and I asked the
armenian side to open their
archives and third countries, we
made a call for that too so
people could look into all of
these documents and we could all
decide and see what's going on,
but it's -- this is not about
lobbying and going to
politicians and asking them to
take certain decisions.
|
| 00:42:53 | This is not really the way to
go.
|
| 00:42:58 | Something like this is really
not possible, and there is no
truth to it.
|
| 00:43:03 | >> Charlie: Did president obama
bring it up with you?
|
| 00:43:05 | Has he discussed it with you?
|
| 00:43:11 | >> I have spoken with him, yes.
|
| 00:43:15 | Of course, this most recent
normalization process between
turkey and armenia is important.
|
| 00:43:23 | This was the context in which we
discussed these issues and let
me say to the normalization
process.
|
| 00:43:28 | It was turkey that initiated the
normalization process.
|
| 00:43:34 | Turkey took upon itself the
risk.
|
| 00:43:36 | We believe in ourselves.
|
| 00:43:37 | What we would like to see is for
this normalization process to go
forward and in that, it's
important that the karavak be
resolved.
|
| 00:43:53 | There is an occupation.
|
| 00:43:54 | There are three countries
involved -- united states,
russian federation and france.
|
| 00:44:00 | The minesk group, why hasn't it
solved the problem in the last
20 years?
|
| 00:44:05 | Once that problem is solved then
that region will be a region of
peace.
|
| 00:44:10 | Why?
|
| 00:44:10 | Because once the problem between
azerbaijan and armenia is
solved, that hatred is going to
dissipate.
|
| 00:44:19 | There is the decision of the
united nations security council
which will be implemented and
the problems between turkey and
armenia will definitely be
resolved, I believe in it but at
the moment, you have the u.s.
|
| 00:44:33 | Congress here, and the u.s.
|
| 00:44:35 | Congress doesn't have direct
relations with our region.
|
| 00:44:38 | We are there in that region.
|
| 00:44:40 | We have direct relations.
|
| 00:44:42 | We have direct issues.
|
| 00:44:46 | And it's the turkish parliament
who has to make a decision on
this agreement between turkey
and armenia.
|
| 00:44:52 | They have to approve it.
|
| 00:44:55 | Of course, the turkish
parliament too is very sensitive
about this issue, and if the
positive developments that we
would like to see do not come
about, then I do not believe
that our parliament will have a
positive result as a result of
its deliberations.
|
| 00:45:12 | We will have a secret ballot,
but I don't believe that without
any other positive developments
there will be a positive
outcome.
|
| 00:45:20 | >> Charlie: Are there any
misconceptions about turkey that
in any way restrict your
ambitions for your country?
|
| 00:45:36 | >> No doubt.
|
| 00:45:37 | There are misconceptions for
almost all countries in the
world.
|
| 00:45:46 | For example, isn't there
anti-americanism in some
countries around the world, or
sentiments around russia or
china?
|
| 00:45:52 | We're talking about the leading
countries in the world, india,
the same is true for indand
there may be opposing views and
groups.
|
| 00:46:05 | What's important is how you
minimize that.
|
| 00:46:07 | I don't mean to say that one
could remove all of those views
and opinions or approaches.
|
| 00:46:14 | There is going to be some --
there has got to be some sort of
a solidarty.
|
| 00:46:21 | The united nations.
|
| 00:46:22 | Why is it there?
|
| 00:46:23 | The united nations is an
umbrella for all the countries,
but to all countries respect
each other even though they are
?
|
| 00:46:33 | You hear all sorts of speeches
being made.
|
| 00:46:35 | Some people are unhappy with it,
and you look at the u.n.
|
| 00:46:40 | Security council, there are 15
countries, five permanent, 10
temporary, and they too, amongst
themselves, sometimes oppose
each other.
|
| 00:46:48 | Some of them agree on some
issues.
|
| 00:46:53 | So I don't believe that we
should feel uncomfortable with
some negative approaches.
|
| 00:46:58 | What's important is to deal with
them, to try to minimize -- it's
very important to take these
issues up.
|
| 00:47:04 | >> Charlie: What do you see in
achieving those ambitions and
objectives the biggest challenge
for you?
|
| 00:47:12 | To see turkey play the role in
the world that it wants to play.
|
| 00:47:20 | >> The biggest challenge, of
course, is that I think that
we're not too good in public
diplomacy.
|
| 00:47:27 | We need to develop our public
diplomacy.
|
| 00:47:30 | We need to develop the way we
can disseminate information.
|
| 00:47:33 | I see that this is a weakness
which we have to work on, and we
are working on it.
|
| 00:47:38 | But I would also like to say
that leaders should never abuse
prejudice that may exist in
people.
|
| 00:47:49 | The leaders should not exploit
the prejudice that people may
have.
|
| 00:47:53 | If they do that, then it's very
difficult to reverse certain
policies and actions.
|
| 00:48:00 | This is what we are trying to
make sure we don't do.
|
| 00:48:04 | To give you an example, basis
for xenophobia.
|
| 00:48:11 | Xenophobia is something that we
see in many developed countries
in the world.
|
| 00:48:17 | Unfortunately.
|
| 00:48:18 | Unfortunately.
|
| 00:48:20 | For example, after the twin
towers were hit, this is also
being seen in the u.s.
|
| 00:48:27 | In europe, we see in many
countries -- in germany and
france problems.
|
| 00:48:35 | In switzerland, most recently,i
have expressed that antisemitism
is a crime against humanity, one
of the first leaders and I still
believe this, antisemitism is a
crime against humanity and I say
this everywhere.
|
| 00:48:53 | In the islamic world, everywhere
I go, I make this statement.
|
| 00:48:59 | But I also say that islamophobia
is a crime against humanity.
|
| 00:49:05 | Islamophobia is a crime against
humanity, and every country must
explain -- must understand this,
and to characterize terrorism
with the word "islam" is not
something that any intellectual
should be doing, but there have
been times when, even in the
united states, too, we have
heard people speak of islamic
terrorism but no, never, because
islam has never accepted or
approved terrorism.
|
| 00:49:44 | There could be terrorists who
may adhere to any faith, it
could be jewish or christian or
moslem.
|
| 00:49:53 | It will happen in the future.
|
| 00:49:54 | And I think the media and the
press have a lot of
responsibility in making that
careful distinction, but
unfortunately, most haven't done
that.
|
| 00:50:04 | Some have tried to be careful
and to make that distinction but
on the other hand there have
been others who have really put
more fire -- more fuel in the
fire, and that has created a lot
of concern in the islamic world.
|
| 00:50:18 | You know all the events in the
netherlands, in belgium, in
denmark and most recently in
switzerland.
|
| 00:50:29 | Because people are born with
certain rights and those cannot
be taken -- you can't take right
to life to put right to life to
referendum or freedom of
religion.
|
| 00:50:42 | These are fundamental rights,
freedoms.
|
| 00:50:44 | They cannot be voted upon.
|
| 00:50:46 | Those are rights for people.
|
| 00:50:48 | They are born with.
|
| 00:50:49 | These are not acquired rights.
|
| 00:50:55 | Unfortunately, however, in the
middle of modern europe, in
switzerland, we could see such a
vote taking place, and I hope
that this will change and that
we don't see this happening
anywhere in the world.
|
| 00:51:10 | >> Charlie: When the president
looks at al qaeda and argues
that al qaeda is a terrorist
organization, it is primarily --
if not totally an organization
of people who are muslims,
correct?
|
| 00:51:31 | I am asking you to say to me,
how do we define that?
|
| 00:51:36 | How do you look at that
particular issue?
|
| 00:51:54 | >> I have said before, if I say
I am moslem and I have authority
to act in the name of islam that
doesn't mean I have the
authority.
|
| 00:52:03 | Ien how many people they are and
when they come together, and
they are engaging in some action
and they have threatened us too
from time to time and they
threaten -- and these are a
fact, but I have to say, once
again, that islam -- islam never
allows this kind of an
understanding.
|
| 00:52:27 | Islam does not accept terrorism,
does not allow terrorism.
|
| 00:52:35 | If you kill defenseless people,
and there is organizations in
different religions, and people
are organized everywhere in the
world, irrespective of what
religion they come from, if
they're engaged in terrorist
activity they're terrorists,
they're killing women, children,
elderly, defenseless people, why
are they killing those people?
|
| 00:52:58 | What is their sin?
|
| 00:53:05 | They hit towers, and why?
|
| 00:53:08 | They are all terrorists.
|
| 00:53:12 | These are all terrorist actions,
and as I said before, terrorism
does not recognize any homeland,
religion, race, language.
|
| 00:53:19 | This is our understanding of
what terrorism is.
|
| 00:53:24 | >> Charlie: Do you believe the
-turkish relationship is
growing?
|
| 00:53:30 | Is getting better?
|
| 00:53:31 | Is taking on new dimensions?
|
| 00:53:41 | >> This model partnership -- the
model cooperation that I have
spoken about is important, and i
am very hopeful that there will
be new developments, and
yesterday, the very first
meeting was held.
|
| 00:53:56 | And I think that in the future
there will be a lot of contacts.
|
| 00:54:02 | Our foreign ministers also will
keep this cooperation close, and
we hope to continue to further
deepen and trenthen our
friendship and cooperation.
|
| 00:54:14 | This will be what we will try to
do, and we can say that there is
the political will on both sides
to take these relations further
because I think that turkey
needs the u.s. and the u.s.
|
| 00:54:28 | Needs turkey for international
and regional issues, and there
are many, many things we can do
together.
|
| 00:54:33 | >> Charlie: Thank you for your
time.
|
| 00:54:35 | >> Thank you very much, and
thank you to everyone who has
been watching us.
|
| 00:54:41 | I greet them all.
|
| 00:54:42 | Thank you.
|
| 00:54:42 | >> Charlie: Our thanks to the
prime minister for an
opportunity to learn more about
turkey and its role and its
foreign policy.
|
| 00:54:49 | Tomorrow night on this program
we'll have an hour conversation
with general stanley mcchrystal.
|
| 00:54:55 | See you then.
|
| 00:55:00 | Captioning sponsored by
Rose communications
Captioned by
Media Access Group at WGBH
access.wgbh.org
♪♪ ♪♪
|
| 00:55:18 | ♪♪ ♪♪
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| 00:55:18 | ♪♪ ♪♪
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| 00:55:19 | ♪♪ ♪♪
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