| 00:41:23 | ..
|
| 00:41:25 | .
|
| 00:00:00 | I don't
like them say the word,
paparazzi.
|
| 00:00:03 | I make them call p-people.
|
| 00:00:08 | I don't want them to go to
school saying, the paparazzi
followed us.
|
| 00:00:10 | That's so creepy.
|
| 00:00:12 | >> But now nat tv crews have
packed upane left, the kids are
reportedly in withdrawal.
|
| 00:00:17 | Kate says they sobbed when the
cameras were finally gone.
|
| 00:00:21 | Life on reality tv is the only
life they have ever known.
|
| 00:00:23 | So what happens to these poor
kids now?
|
| 00:00:26 | I want to welcome my truly
fantastic guest panel, danny
bonaduce.
|
| 00:00:34 | Radio host philadelphia.
|
| 00:00:35 | And we know him best as an actor
and reality star.
|
| 00:00:39 | Here's a clip from vh1's
"
>> I'm going to run to the rest
room real quick.
|
| 00:00:47 | I didn't do it.
|
| 00:00:51 | >> Do what?
|
| 00:00:52 | >> I didn't have sex with
anybody.
|
| 00:00:56 | >> Another reality star, joining
me tonight, omarosa, here's her
"
>> I didn't come here to make
friends.
|
| 00:01:09 | I said that from day one.
|
| 00:01:10 | And if you would all stop being
so freakin sensitive.
|
| 00:01:17 | >> I'm not sensitive.
|
| 00:01:18 | >> You just told me, I'm a good
person.
|
| 00:01:21 | >> I am a good person.
|
| 00:01:21 | >> I am a good person.
|
| 00:01:22 | >> What does that have to do
with this?
|
| 00:01:23 | >> You know what?
|
| 00:01:26 | Life's too short to be a
[ bleep ] --
dale
archer, clinical psychologist,
stewart brazil, fabulous casting
agent.
|
| 00:01:31 | Alicia corals, you've been all
over this story.
|
| 00:01:33 | What is the very latest on the
gosselin's divorce?
|
| 00:01:39 | >> The very latest is that the
divorce is finally settled.
|
| 00:01:41 | These two have been fighting
nonstop.
|
| 00:01:42 | Jon gosselin took over $200,000
out of the account.
|
| 00:01:45 | He had to pay it back.
|
| 00:01:47 | It's just been a war of the
words.
|
| 00:01:48 | Going on tv crying, nasty
accusations, so finally the
divorce is finalized.
|
| 00:01:54 | >> Wow.
|
| 00:01:54 | Now as part of the divorce
settlement, we heard jon,
reportedly, has to pay child
support in the five-figure range
every month.
|
| 00:02:01 | That's at least $10,000 a month,
possibly a lot more.
|
| 00:02:06 | My question is, how is he going
to pay it?
|
| 00:02:08 | Jon was pitching his own reality
show, "divorced dad's club" and
featuring himself and another
winner, lindsey lohan's dad.
|
| 00:02:22 | But tlc tried to block him from
getting another tv job citing
his contract with the network.
|
| 00:02:25 | So I've got to go back to alicia
on this.
|
| 00:02:28 | Will jon actually be forced to
get a real job?
|
| 00:02:30 | >> Jon might have to get a real
job.
|
| 00:02:32 | At the end of the day when
you're on reality tv, it's very
rare.
|
| 00:02:35 | But usually your 15 seconds of
fame are extremely quick.
|
| 00:02:37 | Right now he's not america's
sweetheart anymore.
|
| 00:02:41 | America saw a different side of
him with this divorce, they saw
him running around with all
kinds of women.
|
| 00:02:45 | So he's not exactly the most
marketable of people right now.
|
| 00:02:49 | He might have to go out there,
roll up his sleeves, gets a real
job.
|
| 00:02:53 | >> Here's my big issue.
|
| 00:02:54 | Tv or not tv.
|
| 00:02:54 | How shakespearian.
|
| 00:02:56 | When jon and kate split, tlc
planned a new show called "kate
"
as soon as jon was cut out of
the equation, he suddenly had an
epiphany and decided, oh, I now
have a problem with my kids
being on tv.
|
| 00:03:09 | Listen to him on cnn's "larry
"
>> I don't want them to film
anymore.
|
| 00:03:18 | I don't think it's healthy for
them.
|
| 00:03:20 | The reason I don't think it's
healthy for them is that we're
going through a divorce right
now, and I don't think it should
be televised and I think my kids
should be taken off the show.
|
| 00:03:26 | >> Now that the divorce is
final, will he decide, okay,
it's okay for his kids to be
back on tv?
|
| 00:03:31 | Or will he say, it's okay for a
price?
|
| 00:03:36 | Bottom line, and I want to put
this question to stewart
brazzle, you are a reality show
casting agent, you know this
world.
|
| 00:03:48 | Do you think jon has the
leverage to block a new "kate
plus eight"?
|
| 00:03:53 | >> You know, jane, I have to say
that I agree with alicia that
jon has truly shown his true
colors this year.
|
| 00:03:58 | At the end of the day, he is a
father.
|
| 00:04:01 | Jon and kate are parents.
|
| 00:04:03 | No one's paying attention to
these kids.
|
| 00:04:05 | I want to take a look at, is
being on reality tv healthy for
these kids.
|
| 00:04:09 | On's going to put the stops to
it, because he misses his face
on television.
|
| 00:04:17 | Let's be real.
|
| 00:04:19 | I think it will be interesting
to see how this all pans out t
can go any way right now.
|
| 00:04:22 | >> Omarosa, you again, steeped
in the reality show world.
|
| 00:04:25 | Knowing what you know about this
divorce and his sudden epiphany
that he doesn't think his
children should be on the show
at the same time they don't want
him anymore, do you think now
that the divorce is settled, do
you think he will bellow kate to
have her "kate plus eight" show
without him?
|
| 00:04:52 | >> Unfortunately jon has shown
himself to be quite a vindictive
person.
|
| 00:04:56 | There's no question he's going
to continue to block kate from
prospering because he can't have
her, he can't be in the equation
any longer and certainly can't
extend his 15 minutes of fame.
|
| 00:05:03 | He'll continue to block it but
it hurts his children
ultimately.
|
| 00:05:09 | How are you going to support
these children?
|
| 00:05:11 | There are a lot of kids to
support and it was an income
stream for this family and i
think in the long run, it will
be the kids who suffer.
|
| 00:05:16 | >> Danny bonaduce, the kids are
reportedly suffering withdrawal
because they've grown up around
these cameras.
|
| 00:05:22 | They've never known anything
else.
|
| 00:05:23 | Now the cameras have been
yanked.
|
| 00:05:25 | Kate herself said they're
sobbing.
|
| 00:05:27 | I don't know whether she said
that because she wants them back
on a show or whether they were
really sobbing.
|
| 00:05:30 | You were a child star.
|
| 00:05:33 | What happens to kids when they
suddenly turn the camera off?
|
| 00:05:36 | >> I'll tell you, there's a big
rumor that being a child star is
the worst thing in the world.
|
| 00:05:39 | That's not true.
|
| 00:05:40 | Being a child star is actually a
great deal of fun.
|
| 00:05:41 | Being an ex-child star, that's
terrible.
|
| 00:05:43 | When you grow up and you've been
used to being famous and all of
a sudden all you're trained for
is being a busboy, famous busboy
is the worst job description in
the world.
|
| 00:05:49 | They need that camera back
because that's what they know
and know nothing else.
|
| 00:05:52 | For jon to get another tv show
is missing several ingredients,
charm, grace, handsomeness,
look, talent.
|
| 00:06:06 | He doesn't have a shot, he will
be homeless by my calculations.
|
| 00:06:08 | >> You're saying he's going to
be homeless, I've got you.
|
| 00:06:10 | But you're also saying something
I find pretty extraordinary.
|
| 00:06:11 | But as a former child star
yourself, you're saying that
it's actually hurting these kids
to have the cameras yanked from
them?
|
| 00:06:20 | They're used to them, and it's
part of their self-esteem and
they should continue to have the
cameras on them?
|
| 00:06:25 | Are you really -- do you really
believe that?
|
| 00:06:28 | >> Well, I really believe that i
have seen the gosselin family
and they show no great
dexterity in any other world.
|
| 00:06:36 | I'm saying that -- let's pick
the lesser of two evils, we're
you're either breeding new eight
gas station attendants or give
at least enough money to
survive.
|
| 00:06:51 | These children know nothing of
survival.
|
| 00:06:53 | They know anything about being
pampered and watched their
family grovel and fight over
money and fame.
|
| 00:06:56 | That's all they know and that's
all they'll try to accomplish.
|
| 00:06:57 | >> I think we've got to bring
the psychiatrist in on this one.
|
| 00:07:02 | dale archer, the
conventional wisdom is that it's
bad for the kids to have a
camera in their face the whole
time.
|
| 00:07:08 | They don't know reality, tv
affects reality, their parents
become stilted, they begin
mugging for the camera, they
become big phonies.
|
| 00:07:15 | This is all bad for them.
|
| 00:07:16 | Now you hear danny saying, it's
even worse to be an ex-child
star, to have the camera yanked
once you're used to having all
that attention.
|
| 00:07:26 | >> Yeah, danny is absolutely
right.
|
| 00:07:29 | Because understand that kids
understand normal to be what
their reality is.
|
| 00:07:31 | So if they have cameras in their
face all the time, they have
people around them, producers,
technicians and all those folks,
they bond with those folks and
they bond with the cameras.
|
| 00:07:38 | They know that as normal.
|
| 00:07:40 | Now take the cameras away,
something is missing from their
life.
|
| 00:07:45 | But here's what I'm concerned
about.
|
| 00:07:47 | Next year the cameras come back
again, and so they feel normal
again.
|
| 00:07:50 | Basically I think we're breeding
fame addicts here by putting the
cameras there, taking it away,
putting it back, and the only
time they ever feel normal is
when the cameras are on them.
|
| 00:08:00 | >> We have now coined a new
phrase here on "issues,"
breeding fame addicts.
|
| 00:08:05 | Breeding fame addicts.
|
| 00:08:06 | That's a scary concept.
|
| 00:08:08 | All right, everyone.
|
| 00:08:09 | Hang tight.
|
| 00:08:10 | More on the jon and kate divorce
drama in a moment.
|
| 00:08:13 | Plus, blinded by the bright
lights of hollywood, nick hogan
this is just a sad case,
wrecked his car leaving his best
friend clinging to life.
|
| 00:08:22 | But instead of worrying about
his buddy, it seemed nick was
angling for -- you've got it.
|
| 00:08:25 | A new reality show.
|
| 00:08:27 | But first, jon and kate plus
eight, the marriage is kaput.
|
| 00:08:30 | Divorce, final.
|
| 00:08:31 | Show, canceled.
|
| 00:08:33 | What about the poor kids?
|
| 00:08:34 | They were exploited.
|
| 00:08:36 | But how will they deal with
having no cameras?
|
| 00:08:41 | >> Jon gosselin admitted the
kids did not have the
pennsylvania permits required to
be on a television show.
|
| 00:08:48 | We already know they're not
being fairly compensated.
|
| 00:08:50 | This is a mess of huge
proportions, because now we have
hundreds of kids on reality
shows.
|
| 00:11:45 | >> Larry: Is he a good father?
|
| 00:11:45 | >> He is.
|
| 00:11:50 | >> Larry: Why the pause?
|
| 00:11:56 | >> His decisions right now are
not ones that I would
necessarily make.
|
| 00:12:01 | But down deep in his heart, i
know that is he.
|
| 00:12:05 | >> Kate gosselin has a tough
time calling jon a good dad,
especially after the string of
young girlfriends he's
reportedly had since they've
split.
|
| 00:12:13 | Back to my fabulous panel.
|
| 00:12:15 | I want to ask stewart brazzle,
who's a reality show casting
agent about this whole concept
of kids and breeding kids for
fame.
|
| 00:12:25 | A phrase I'll have to attribute
to dale archer.
|
| 00:12:30 | Good work coming up with that
fabulous concept.
|
| 00:12:32 | Not!
|
| 00:12:34 | Stewart, listen, I was a showbiz
kid, I went out and auditioned.
|
| 00:12:41 | And there's something called the
stage mother.
|
| 00:12:43 | My mom was not one of them.
|
| 00:12:44 | That's probably why I was not
successful as a child actor.
|
| 00:12:46 | But there are stage mothers who
live vicariously through their
children, and they push them and
really treat their child like a
commodity, something they've got
to sell at all times.
|
| 00:12:51 | You deal with these women.
|
| 00:12:56 | What's up with them?
|
| 00:12:58 | >> Yeah.
|
| 00:13:00 | You know, jane, you said it
right.
|
| 00:13:07 | We have the same thing with the
heene family, using the kids to
get fame for the parents.
|
| 00:13:14 | And it is a scary, scary
situation with the gosselins.
|
| 00:13:15 | It's amazed me they've been all
over tv saying how broke they
are when to me they're marketing
themselves and making plenty of
money.
|
| 00:13:20 | Jon's running around showing
that he's a complete d-bag while
the whole time they're upset
about losing the show for
themselves.
|
| 00:13:29 | I'm sure the kids are
experiencing loss, but that's
normal for children.
|
| 00:13:32 | I don't think it's a good idea
for them to continue living
their entire lives in front of a
reality tv cameras.
|
| 00:13:38 | Stage moms?
|
| 00:13:40 | Complete, complete nightmares.
|
| 00:13:43 | >> Let's psychobabble this
little bit.
|
| 00:13:47 | Danny bonaduce, you again, were
a child star.
|
| 00:13:50 | Do you think -- talk to us about
your parents.
|
| 00:13:52 | I mean, why were you funneled
into that world?
|
| 00:13:55 | Do you think it hurt you overall
in your life?
|
| 00:13:57 | Or are you glad that you had
that experience at the end of
the day?
|
| 00:14:01 | >> Oh, I'm absolutely glad that
I had that experience at the end
of the day.
|
| 00:14:04 | Had I not had that experience,
we would not be having this
experience together, and i
cherish our moments, jane.
|
| 00:14:08 | I will tell you this, I wrote a
television show that was very
successful called "my kid is the
"
who -- we had a woman on it who
I am not a doctor, who in my
opinion, was certifiably insane.
|
| 00:14:30 | She was a stage mother and would
manage her child, yell at them
to perform and smile bigger.
|
| 00:14:33 | We had to get her off the show
because the show was about being
a good stage mother.
|
| 00:14:36 | Now she's on the another reality
show about crazy women called
"
matter of fact, crazy sells
whether it's a parent or a
child, people will watch a train
wreck every time, and the
gosselins are nothing but a car
crash.
|
| 00:14:48 | >> You'd think a couple that
made the cover of every tabloid
might shea -- might start shy
away from the cameras during
break-up.
|
| 00:15:01 | Huh-uh.
|
| 00:15:02 | Check out jon as he reads a
paparazzi e-mail from kate.
|
| 00:15:04 | >> I just got an e-mail from
kate.
|
| 00:15:05 | Saying she says she doesn't want
to see me.
|
| 00:15:07 | >> She says she doesn't want to
see you?
|
| 00:15:09 | >> No.
|
| 00:15:10 | Hold on one second.
|
| 00:15:11 | She wants to change custody.
|
| 00:15:12 | I would appreciate if you would
pick them up at the bus stop
00 and stay until
6:00.
|
| 00:15:16 | So that's ridiculous.
|
| 00:15:17 | I'm going to stay longer than
that.
|
| 00:15:19 | I don't care.
|
| 00:15:20 | >> So it's supposed to be a
joint day because it was a
birthday.
|
| 00:15:23 | >> Yeah.
|
| 00:15:24 | All holidays, birthdays, yeah.
|
| 00:15:27 | >> How do you feel when e-mails
like this come out?
|
| 00:15:30 | >> It doesn't matter.
|
| 00:15:31 | If it's a sign off day, I can
stay as long as I want, I will.
|
| 00:15:35 | >> Raising the question, if he's
got to read his personal e-mails
to the paparazzi on a street
corner, is he addicted to
attention?
|
| 00:15:44 | Omarosa, you've been on "the
"
reality show with donald trump.
|
| 00:15:54 | You also have another show
coming up.
|
| 00:16:00 | Is there is an addictive quality
to this reality show attention,
where it's like you want another
hit, it's like heroin?
|
| 00:16:09 | >> There's no question it sucks
you in, it's like a vacuum.
|
| 00:16:11 | It's difficult to get out of it
unless you understand the
business side.
|
| 00:16:15 | I've always focused on the
business side of this.
|
| 00:16:17 | What jon is attracted to right
now is the money that comes with
being in the public eye.
|
| 00:16:21 | He's getting booked for $15,000
per night gigs to host parties.
|
| 00:16:23 | He's getting $10,000 and $15,000
to go hang out with pretty
women.
|
| 00:16:27 | That's what I think he's
addicted to.
|
| 00:16:32 | I'm not certain that now he's
waning from the spotlight he'll
continue to have that income
stream.
|
| 00:16:35 | I'm hoping that's what this is
about, trying to get more income
for his children as opposed to
exploiting his awful
personality.
|
| 00:16:41 | >> Kate got the reputation for
being a nagging, domineering
wife and mother.
|
| 00:16:45 | She even poked fun at her own
public persona on the nbc's "jay
"
listen to this.
|
| 00:16:53 | >> Stop taking pictures.
|
| 00:16:54 | >> Just a couple more, kate.
|
| 00:16:55 | Just a couple more.
|
| 00:16:56 | >> Hey, what did mommy just say?
|
| 00:16:56 | >> What?
|
| 00:16:57 | >> I asked you to stop taking
pictures and you continued.
|
| 00:17:00 | >> Okay, but we're not your
kids, ma'am.
|
| 00:17:02 | We're not part of your plus
eight.
|
| 00:17:06 | >> Don't talk back to your
mother.
|
| 00:17:10 | >> I'm glad kate can laugh at
herself, but give me a break,
this love-hate relationship with
the paparazzi, pushing them
away, telling her kids to call
them the p-word and here she is
goofing on it.
|
| 00:17:22 | It seems alecia, you're the
entertainment reporter for the
ap.
|
| 00:17:27 | They want the money, the power,
the adulation, they don't want
any of the bad stuff.
|
| 00:17:33 | The scrutiny, the paparazzi
following you, the questions.
|
| 00:17:36 | >> You're absolutely right.
|
| 00:17:38 | Reality stars are no different
than real stars when it comes to
that.
|
| 00:17:42 | Everybody wants you to be the --
the media to hear when they've
done something for charity but
nobody wants to talk about the
downside of fame.
|
| 00:17:50 | You cannot have it both ways.
|
| 00:17:53 | When you put your children out
there on national tv, when
you've made hundreds of
thousands of dollars exploiting
your family letting them into
your home, this is what's going
to happen.
|
| 00:18:03 | There's a negative reaction and
jon and kate have to deal with
that as well.
|
| 00:18:07 | >> Dr. dale archer, ten seconds.
|
| 00:18:10 | Is there something called fame
addiction?
|
| 00:18:12 | >> Yeah, there definitely is
fame addiction.
|
| 00:18:13 | They used to say it's about the
money, but we now know fame is a
drug in and of itself.
|
| 00:18:16 | Just like any addiction, certain
individuals can become addicted
to the spotlight.
|
| 00:18:18 | >> Everyone stay there.
|
| 00:18:20 | We've got more reality
nightmares.
|
| 00:18:23 | The hogan family basically torn
apart.
|
| 00:18:25 | Hulk divorced his wife, his son
in the slammer for a while.
|
| 00:18:28 | But all the while the family did
not stray far from the cameras.
|
| 00:18:30 | Are they addicted to the
spotlight?
|
| 00:18:34 | Plus reality show wannabes.
|
| 00:18:35 | People doing crazy things for
their 15 minutes of fame.
|
| 00:18:39 | Octomom leading the charge.
|
| 00:18:41 | But there are others and at what
cost?
|
| 00:18:43 | >> I do have two helpers with
the baeshs and that's a great
help.
|
| 00:18:52 | And then I have someone help me
primarily -- with my kid who has
autism and then with one of the
others.
|
| 00:22:00 | >>> Nick's focus in talking to
me over and over and being
constantly under the microscope
from the press is what can I do
to keep the focus on john?
|
| 00:22:13 | What can we do to help him?
|
| 00:22:15 | >> It was a busy, busy, busy
year for the flamboyant family
for the vh1 family series "hogan
"
the hulkster released a tell-all
book, and a very bitter and
public divorce battle.
|
| 00:22:28 | The list goes on and on.
|
| 00:22:30 | Safe to say, this is another
family that's managed to keep
themselves right in the
spotlight.
|
| 00:22:37 | One horrific incident that the
hogans undoubtedly wish the
headlines never occurred
occurred when nick, known as the
prankster of the family lost
control of his toyota supra in
august 2007, smashed into a palm
tree, paralyzing his friend john
graziano.
|
| 00:22:58 | Nick spent five months in jail
for reckless driving.
|
| 00:23:00 | More than a year later, graziano
was finally released from a
tampa hospital.
|
| 00:23:02 | Unfortunately, look at that poor
guy.
|
| 00:23:04 | Major brain damage.
|
| 00:23:06 | While behind bars, controversial
conversations between nick and
his pro wrestler dad were made
public.
|
| 00:23:11 | Listen to this.
|
| 00:23:15 | >> John was a negative person.
|
| 00:23:17 | >> He was what?
|
| 00:23:18 | >> He was a negative person.
|
| 00:23:20 | >> Will you work on that
reality deal for me?
|
| 00:23:24 | >> So that the minute I walk out
of here, boom.
|
| 00:23:28 | >> Real-alty.
|
| 00:23:35 | Real-ality is how he puts it.
|
| 00:23:36 | Oy.
|
| 00:23:37 | Based on this disturbing
conversation, do you think nick
was handed simply for being a
member of this family made him
somehow feel invincible to
punishment?
|
| 00:23:50 | >> I don't know he felt
invincible to punishment, he
didn't say when I walk out of
here today, he just said that's
what he knows is that the
television camera puts food on
his table.
|
| 00:24:03 | So whenever I get out of here,
please make sure I have food on
the table and that equals a
camera in front of my face.
|
| 00:24:09 | That's all the hogans know.
|
| 00:24:10 | Hulk hogan has been famous since
I was 8 years d.
|
| 00:24:12 | That's a all that family knows.
|
| 00:24:15 | They're multimillion airs.
|
| 00:24:19 | They own $100 million worth of
property, and they got it
through this television set and
that's all that kid knows.
|
| 00:24:23 | So yes, it's bizarre that that's
what was on his mind, but that's
his only salvation, because
that's all he understands.
|
| 00:24:27 | hogan,
and we'll see this video in a
second.
|
| 00:24:32 | Take off that head wrap when
you're in court.
|
| 00:24:34 | Please.
|
| 00:24:40 | Radaronline recently reported
that nick driepd bombshell in
the testimony.
|
| 00:24:45 | In the negligence lawsuit.
|
| 00:24:45 | Are you sitting down?
|
| 00:24:47 | I know my panel is.
|
| 00:24:49 | During the depositions, nick was
grilled by lawyers for the
injured man's family and a
shocking twist, radaronline
claims nick testified that john
graziano, the victim, quote,
wanted to kill homos, end quote.
|
| 00:25:01 | Again, he's talking negatively
for a person who cannot speak
for himself because of he's been
injured in a car accident due to
the driver of the person who is
making the insult.
|
| 00:25:12 | Alicia, just give us the update
on this.
|
| 00:25:13 | >> You know what?
|
| 00:25:15 | This to me personifies exactly
how reality television can tear
a family apart.
|
| 00:25:19 | I've been interviewing the
hogans for years.
|
| 00:25:21 | When I first started
introducing them when their
reality show started, they came
in loving each other.
|
| 00:25:28 | A couple months ago, hulk comes
in and plays messages from linda
cursing him out.
|
| 00:25:31 | Reality tv can really rip a
family apart.
|
| 00:25:32 | They need to stay out of the
spotlight and focus.
|
| 00:25:34 | >> Everyone stay right there.
|
| 00:25:35 | This is a special edition of
"issues," reality tv nightmares.
|
| 00:25:37 | We'll show you a former reality
show contestant who killed.
|
| 00:27:59 | >>> Tonight, from reality tv
contestant to cold-blooded
killer ryan jenkins murdered his
model wife and stuffed her in a
suitcase.
|
| 00:28:10 | One week later he killed
himself.
|
| 00:28:13 | The murder sparked an
international man hunt.
|
| 00:28:15 | Was this ryan's last grasp at
the reality spotlight?
|
| 00:28:17 | Plus, desperate for attention.
|
| 00:28:18 | Average joes seeking the
spotlight.
|
| 00:28:20 | Octomom.
|
| 00:28:21 | Balloon boy, and the white house
party crashers, just to name a
few.
|
| 00:28:24 | These wannabe reality stars will
do anything for their five
minutes of fame.
|
| 00:28:28 | But at what cost?
|
| 00:28:30 | An "issues" special
investigation of reality tv
nightmares.
|
| 00:28:35 | Contestant ryan jenkins turned
his newfound fame into a
gruesome tragedy.
|
| 00:28:43 | He was not on one, but two vh1
shows, "megan wants a
"
police say he murdered his
ex-wife, cut out her teeth and
fingers.
|
| 00:28:58 | Police had to use her breast
implants in order to identify
her.
|
| 00:29:01 | Jenkins was a man clearly
leading a double life.
|
| 00:29:05 | Here is ryan on vh1's "megan
"
>> this is going to be the best
night of your life.
|
| 00:29:16 | Out of all these guys I'm
definitely the most james bond
out of anywhere.
|
| 00:29:18 | >> Ryan, save the day.
|
| 00:29:20 | >> Give him some goggles.
|
| 00:29:21 | >> I decided to appeal to all
your senses.
|
| 00:29:23 | First, I'd like to start with
your mouth.
|
| 00:29:30 | >> Jenkins already fled canada
by the time jasmine fiore's body
was found in a trash bin in
southern california.
|
| 00:29:35 | But as police started to close
in on him, he hanged himself in
a hotel room.
|
| 00:29:40 | Could this double tragedy have
been prevented?
|
| 00:29:45 | Were there red flags in jenkins'
past that were missed?
|
| 00:29:49 | I want to welcome back my
fantastic panel.
|
| 00:29:53 | Reality star, dana bonaduce.
|
| 00:29:55 | Here is a clip from "breaking
"
>> I'm going to run to the rest
room real quick.
|
| 00:29:58 | I'll be right back.
|
| 00:29:59 | Thanks, man.
|
| 00:30:06 | I didn't do it.
|
| 00:30:09 | >> Do what?
|
| 00:30:10 | >> I didn't have sex with
anybody.
|
| 00:30:12 | >> Another reality star joining
me, omarosa, here she is on "the
"
>> this is where the personality
attacks come in.
|
| 00:30:22 | I didn't come here to make
friends.
|
| 00:30:23 | I said that from day one.
|
| 00:30:24 | And if you would stop being so
freakin' sensitive.
|
| 00:30:26 | >> I'm not sensitive, honey.
|
| 00:30:26 | >> You just told me, I'm a good
person.
|
| 00:30:29 | >> I am a good person.
|
| 00:30:31 | >> What does that have to do
with this?
|
| 00:30:33 | >> You know what?
|
| 00:30:36 | Life's too short to be a
[ bleep ] --
dale
archer, clinical psychiatrist.
|
| 00:30:40 | Stewart brazzle, casting agent,
there you are.
|
| 00:30:44 | And alecia corrals.
|
| 00:30:46 | Entertainment reporter for the
associated press.
|
| 00:30:48 | Great to you have all.
|
| 00:30:49 | Stewart, start with you.
|
| 00:30:50 | You were the casting agent for
"megan wants to be a
"
did you interact with this
killer, ryan jenkins, who later
smitted suicide.
|
| 00:31:00 | And how did his surface
appearance and story differ from
the sinister dark side we later
found out about?
|
| 00:31:05 | >> Yes, jane, I actually am the
one who found ryan, met ryan in
las vegas.
|
| 00:31:10 | You know, I want to start by
saying that in no way do I think
being on a reality show is to
blame for ryan murdering
someone.
|
| 00:31:19 | I think that reality can bring
out the good and the bad in
people.
|
| 00:31:23 | This happened to be bringing out
the bad in someone.
|
| 00:31:27 | Did I see red flags that i
thought that this would happen?
|
| 00:31:30 | He seemed like a very happy guy.
|
| 00:31:31 | He was out to have a good time,
did I think it would end in such
devastating tragedy?
|
| 00:31:37 | Absolutely not.
|
| 00:31:38 | I think we need to look at what
being on a reality show can do
to someone and how to ease them
back into their normal lives.
|
| 00:31:48 | Portray himself very effectively
as this very highly educated
cultured man who came from welt,
whose father was a prominent
professional in canada.
|
| 00:31:59 | But he also did have a rap
sheet, and in canada, he was
convicted for assault of a
girlfriend in 2005.
|
| 00:32:04 | He got probation, was ordered to
get counseling for domestic
violence and sex addiction.
|
| 00:32:09 | Why didn't that come up?
|
| 00:32:13 | Stewart, is that because it
happened in canada?
|
| 00:32:15 | >> You know what?
|
| 00:32:18 | I was looking at the news today
taken looks like the normal
vetting process was in order and
now the background check, you
know the company who conducted
the background check, then
subcontracted someone in canada.
|
| 00:32:29 | There's now a lawsuit involved.
|
| 00:32:30 | No one wants to take blame for
this.
|
| 00:32:32 | Obviously no one wants to take
blame.
|
| 00:32:34 | Something fell through the
cracks.
|
| 00:32:37 | >> That's interesting.
|
| 00:32:38 | You don't to the background
check, you hire a company that
does the -- you're not a private
investigator.
|
| 00:32:41 | >> Right.
|
| 00:32:42 | >> You're a casting agent.
|
| 00:32:46 | >> Your job not knocking on the
doors, this person do they
have -- that's not your job.
|
| 00:32:50 | Okay, so you contract that out
to a company that is a private
investigative company, or does
that kind of work, and they come
back and say this guy's clean or
this guy's dirty, right?
|
| 00:33:00 | >> Right.
|
| 00:33:03 | Actually, I don't even do that.
|
| 00:33:07 | I put -- I interview ryan, put
him on camera.
|
| 00:33:09 | I turn over the tapes to the
production company.
|
| 00:33:11 | The production company then
hires the company that then
subcontracted another company.
|
| 00:33:14 | So as you can see, there are
lots and lots of layers to this.
|
| 00:33:16 | >> Wow.
|
| 00:33:17 | >> There are lots of layers to
how someone actually ends up on
the reality tv show.
|
| 00:33:21 | It's not that cut and dry.
|
| 00:33:22 | >> We want to dig into those
layers right now.
|
| 00:33:25 | I have to ask the question, is
reality tv a magnet for madness?
|
| 00:33:27 | Boy, we're coming up with a lot
of phrases today.
|
| 00:33:31 | On this reality show.
|
| 00:33:35 | Does reality tv, seriously,
attract the kind of people who
by their very nature are
imbalanced?
|
| 00:33:45 | Danny bonaduce, you starred on
"
you were very open about having
"
let's take a look at this.
|
| 00:33:53 | >> Without gretchen I'm a
30-second sound bite, ex-child
star, found dead.
|
| 00:33:56 | >> Danny bonaduce, obsessive
personality.
|
| 00:33:58 | >> I take enough pills to get
full.
|
| 00:34:02 | >> Who is danny bonaduce?
|
| 00:34:03 | >> I'm not clear on who he is.
|
| 00:34:04 | Mentally unsound, screwed up,
unhappy.
|
| 00:34:07 | Open pound, lost, barely famous.
|
| 00:34:10 | >> So, danny, do you think there
is something in your personality
that attracted you to reality tv
that made you more likely than
joe schmo to bare all your
demons and your dark side to the
camera?
|
| 00:34:23 | >> No, I think that I have more
demons and dark sides which
draws the camera to me.
|
| 00:34:26 | Remember, in the book,
frankenstein is not the monster.
|
| 00:34:28 | The monster is named the
monster.
|
| 00:34:31 | The guy who makes the monster is
frankenstein.
|
| 00:34:33 | We are frankenstein.
|
| 00:34:34 | When we talk about, do we have
to ease these people back into
society once they've been on a
reality show, no, you need to
ease soldiers who have been into
battle back into society.
|
| 00:34:47 | If reality shows are so
dangerous that you need to
readjust people before you can
set them free on the streets
then we should stop doing them
and we're not far from that
point.
|
| 00:34:57 | Has anybody seen this new show,
"the jersey shore"?
|
| 00:35:04 | >> "Issues," we did a whole
segment on it.
|
| 00:35:08 | >> As an italian-american, not
offended in the slightest.
|
| 00:35:09 | There's a small --
>> that's another subject.
|
| 00:35:11 | My issue tonight, deadly
reality, ryan jenkins, a history
anger and jealous and he was
also cited aside from what we
have already discussed for
battery after allegedly hitting
jasmine.
|
| 00:35:26 | This alleged murderer is put on
a dating show, and we have to
ask, and I applaud stewart for
being very up front answering
these questions, where were the
red flags?
|
| 00:35:33 | The problem is ryan seemed
frighteningly normal.
|
| 00:35:38 | Check out this clip from vh1's
"megan wants to be a
"
you decide.
|
| 00:35:43 | >> Time with megan alone was
enough to let her get in touch
with my deeper side, and redeem
myself for, you know, some of
the silly things I said at
dinner.
|
| 00:35:53 | >> Omarosa, you're looking at
this guy.
|
| 00:35:56 | He does seem, on this clip, to
be normal.
|
| 00:36:00 | He's educated.
|
| 00:36:02 | There's no way that you could
know, unless you knew his
record, which apparently
somebody goofed on that.
|
| 00:36:07 | There's no way you could
possibly predict this guy was
going to be a murderer.
|
| 00:36:11 | >> Well, jane, I don't think all
the data tells a true story.
|
| 00:36:13 | When we first went on "the
apprentice," they conducted
extensive background
investigations and also put us
through a battery of tests and
psychological evaluations.
|
| 00:36:24 | I believe the producers know the
makeup of the personality that
they're getting but they don't
know how that person will
respond under pressure or what
triggers will come out as a
result of being exposed to this
process.
|
| 00:36:34 | So out of fairness to stewart
who is there as the casting
person, you may pick somebody
who
is a big personality on camera
but not know they will go put
somebody in a dumpster.
|
| 00:36:44 | There's no way to know that.
|
| 00:36:44 | >> You hit on a key point.
|
| 00:36:46 | dale archer, the very likely
people to be "good television,"
in other words, excitable,
upbeat, those are the very
people who are more likely to
have some kind of emotional
problem.
|
| 00:37:00 | >> Well, I don't know about
that, but I think that the
important point here is that
everyone who has a drink doesn't
become an alcoholic, everyone
who goes on a reality show
doesn't become warped and
twisted and only interested in
reality.
|
| 00:37:13 | But do you have a subset of
individuals who are going to end
up with an addiction to the
spotlight and that's very
clearly what we see.
|
| 00:37:21 | And I think in ryan jenkins'
case, he forgot the reality of
where the show ended and real
life began.
|
| 00:37:28 | In his mind, I think he thought
this murder was part of the show
until all of a sudden a week
later it all came crashing down
on him and he realized what he
did and he committed suicide.
|
| 00:37:36 | >> Alicia corrals, ten seconds.
|
| 00:37:38 | I understand you have something
to add very briefly about
jasmine.
|
| 00:37:42 | >> I just think it's tragic all
the way around.
|
| 00:37:43 | But again you can't blame
reality tv.
|
| 00:37:45 | Ryan was troubled.
|
| 00:37:45 | I think he would have done this
whether he was on reality tv or
if he wasn't.
|
| 00:37:48 | >> All right.
|
| 00:37:49 | Everyone stay right there.
|
| 00:37:50 | We're just getting warmed up,
addicted to fame.
|
| 00:37:55 | Regular joes.
|
| 00:37:56 | Do they do anything they can to
get attention?
|
| 00:37:59 | Are these people crazy?
|
| 00:38:00 | They're everywhere.
|
| 00:38:01 | They will stop at nothing to get
their 15 minutes of fame.
|
| 00:38:02 | >> Three, two, one!
|
| 00:38:03 | Whoa!
|
| 00:38:09 | >> Oh, my god.
|
| 00:38:10 | Okay.
|
| 00:38:14 | Are you in?
|
| 00:38:14 | Get him -- put the tether!
|
| 00:41:41 | >>> The most dangerous breed of
reality tv star?
|
| 00:41:44 | The wannabes.
|
| 00:41:45 | I'm talking about those people
who will do anything to get a
slice of fame.
|
| 00:41:49 | Lets take a look at the
contenders for this year's most
desperate fame chasers.
|
| 00:41:55 | >> I have all of them back.
|
| 00:41:57 | There's eight of them here.
|
| 00:42:00 | >> We did this for the show.
|
| 00:42:02 | >> Mr. and mrs. salahi.
|
| 00:42:06 | >> It's so tough to decide.
|
| 00:42:08 | But let's see.
|
| 00:42:10 | This year's winner -- and the
winner is octomom.
|
| 00:42:16 | Here she is on radaronline.
|
| 00:42:18 | Nadya suleman parades her 14
kids in front of the cameras
every single chance she gets.
|
| 00:42:28 | Courtesy of "life & style
magazine" our favorite christmas
card here on "issues," yep, it's
claus and her team of
elves.
|
| 00:42:37 | Honorable mention definitely
goes to the reality hungry heene
family.
|
| 00:42:42 | They pulled off that hoax that
tricked the whole country,
including us here at "issues,"
and it was all to get their own
reality show.
|
| 00:42:51 | You know, I even got caught up
on the excitement.
|
| 00:42:55 | Here I am on halloween dressed
as little falcon henne, complete
complete with my miniature mylar
flying saucer.
|
| 00:43:04 | And, of course, we cannot forget
the d.c. party crashers.
|
| 00:43:06 | They had the gall to show up to
the white house uninvited.
|
| 00:43:09 | Was it just to secure a reality
tv deal?
|
| 00:43:11 | Sure looks like it.
|
| 00:43:13 | These days you don't have to be
an actor, singer, dancer, you
don't need any talent to be a
star.
|
| 00:43:20 | Come on.
|
| 00:43:21 | You just need 15 minutes in
front of any camera.
|
| 00:43:23 | We are a nation addicted to
fame.
|
| 00:43:26 | Straight back out to my
fantastic expert panel and
delighted to welcome al
reynolds, star of "life after,"
hey, al, how are you doing.
|
| 00:43:36 | >> Hi, jane, how are you?
|
| 00:43:37 | Good to see you.
|
| 00:43:39 | >> And brad cohen of "the
"
and we start with omarosa, the
reality tv star via "the
"
you've really brought some class
to this whole reality genre,
omarosa.
|
| 00:43:56 | I congratulate you for that.
|
| 00:43:57 | People who make it need a unique
ingredient.
|
| 00:43:59 | What is that unique ingredient
for being a successful reality
star?
|
| 00:44:04 | >> I think the first ingredient
is to be able to self-produce
yourself.
|
| 00:44:09 | In the sense that being aware on
"the apprentice" that there were
15 other contestants.
|
| 00:44:19 | That they were type-a
personalities.
|
| 00:44:21 | All vying to work for donald
trump.
|
| 00:44:23 | I went toe to toe with him in
the boardroom, I took everybody
down that got in my way because
I wanted that ultimate prize.
|
| 00:44:29 | So I think that's first step is
being bold, brazen and
understanding that you're
competing for that coveted air
space.
|
| 00:44:38 | >> Yeah, but your bold and
brazen has intelligence and
skill behind it.
|
| 00:44:42 | These other folks that we're
talking about, it's really just
more grasping without really
wanting to be of service in any
way for any higher cause.
|
| 00:44:47 | Take a look at nadya suleman.
|
| 00:44:48 | The octomom.
|
| 00:44:49 | Is she addicted to having
babies?
|
| 00:44:51 | It's truly horrifying.
|
| 00:44:54 | Listen to this from abc's "good
"
>> will you ever have more
children?
|
| 00:44:58 | >> Oh, my goodness, I won't even
talk about that.
|
| 00:45:00 | I don't know, if I get married
some day in the future.
|
| 00:45:03 | >> You could see maybe having
more?
|
| 00:45:05 | >> I mean, you know, I've been
kind of a science experiment --
you know, by choice, a kind of a
science experiment for almost
ten years.
|
| 00:45:12 | And if I wanted to do it the
traditional way and get married,
that's like another chapter.
|
| 00:45:17 | >> Please, octomom, stop having
babies.
|
| 00:45:22 | Brad fore cohen, the reason why
she won is because, while the
others did crazy things, this
woman actually gave birth to 14
kids for the purposes of,
basically, getting the attention
that she desperately craved.
|
| 00:45:37 | And she's talked about being an
only child.
|
| 00:45:40 | I mean, is -- is there something
pathological about acting out
your own personal traumas in
this way?
|
| 00:45:46 | >> I mean, certainly when you
look at the people that are
hungry for the fame and hungry
to get on these reality shows,
those are usually the most
tragic ones of the situation.
|
| 00:45:55 | I mean, like the octomom thing
is amazing she would go to those
lengths to not only get her own
reality show, but be known, be
famous.
|
| 00:46:03 | She talked about angelina jolie
and all these other people she
wanted to emulate.
|
| 00:46:07 | It's really a tragic situation,
when you pull others into your
delusional, you know, where
you're at in your delusions of
fame.
|
| 00:46:16 | So she's actually, you know,
these kids are now subject to
her wanting to be famous.
|
| 00:46:19 | And it's the same thing with the
henne family.
|
| 00:46:22 | He pulled these kids in.
|
| 00:46:23 | I mean, the kid was getting sick
on tv, and all because the
father was the one who was
striking out for the fame and
going for it.
|
| 00:46:29 | And I don't feel so bad for the
people who crashed the obama
party.
|
| 00:46:32 | >> You're absolutely right.
|
| 00:46:34 | In both of these cases, they're
pulling children into their
grandiose desire for fame.
|
| 00:46:42 | Let's listen to -- in the
balloon boy case, dad's frantic
911 call that turned out to be
phony baloney.
|
| 00:47:10 | >> Al reynolds, what's so
upsetting about that, is look at
the terrible values that they
are teaching their children,
lie, do anything for the show.
|
| 00:47:18 | >> You know what, jane?
|
| 00:47:21 | You're right.
|
| 00:47:23 | But it makes for great tv.
|
| 00:47:24 | I do not like the fact that, you
know, in these cases that we're
looking at right now that kids
are involved, and we really
don't know the traumatic affect
this will have on them and as
they come to age as adults or
whatever.
|
| 00:47:39 | But I've got to tell you, it's
definitely good stories.
|
| 00:47:41 | And as an american, we are
obsessed with this type of
television.
|
| 00:47:45 | So it makes for great tv, it
makes for great news, and we
can't get enough of it.
|
| 00:47:51 | it makes
for great news, and that's why
reality tv is exactly what it's
called, reality television.
|
| 00:47:58 | >> If people wouldn't watch,
these people wouldn't become so
desperate to get on tv.
|
| 00:48:03 | Ilts america that's watching,
and it's america that's buying
the us weeklies and the star
magazines.
|
| 00:48:10 | >> Let me just say this.
|
| 00:48:12 | What's really sick about this,
dale archer, a guy who could
pull off that kind of stunt and
fool the entire world, including
news organizations, it was
creative, but his creativity was
directed to something toxic.
|
| 00:48:26 | >> You're absolutely right.
|
| 00:48:27 | But jane, I think you hit the
nail on the head earlier when
you talked about the no talent
of these individuals.
|
| 00:48:33 | 30 Years ago to be famous, you
had to do something, you had to
be something and you had to have
a talent.
|
| 00:48:39 | Now anybody can do something
that's a stunt or a scheme and
get on tv.
|
| 00:48:44 | >> As long as you have a mi lar
balloon, everybody stay there.
|
| 00:48:49 | We'll have more wannabes,
including the white house
crashers.
|
| 00:48:57 | We'll analyze them next.
|
| 00:52:09 | .
|
| 00:52:10 | >>> That poor kid.
|
| 00:52:10 | We did this for the show.
|
| 00:52:13 | Unbelievable.
|
| 00:52:14 | I even fell for that one.
|
| 00:52:15 | We're talking about reality
tvwannabes.
|
| 00:52:19 | How about the white house
crashers?
|
| 00:52:22 | They showed up with tv cameras
in tow, all because she aspired
to be one of these.
|
| 00:52:35 | >> No, you don't.
|
| 00:52:38 | Get your [ bleep ] hands off me.
|
| 00:52:42 | >> 1910!
|
| 00:52:54 | >> [ Bleep ] [ bleep ].
|
| 00:52:58 | >> Put your hands on me!
|
| 00:53:00 | Put your hands on me!
|
| 00:53:01 | >> This is not me being a
victim, this is me telling you
to shut the [ bleep ] up.
|
| 00:53:08 | >> Danny bonaduce, if that had
been skriptd as a movie script,
they might get nominated for
oscars shs but somehow since
they're doing it on the fly, it
robz it of its pathos, I would
say.
|
| 00:53:26 | >> It robs it of dig nitty
dignity, and I'll write a
reality show.
|
| 00:53:42 | It's called, let me in here, and
they say who can talk themselves
into better parties that they
weren't invited to.
|
| 00:53:49 | I think it's a better show.
|
| 00:53:50 | >> The campaign for fame.
|
| 00:53:54 | We have called it, after careful
nals, the tequila syndrome.
|
| 00:54:01 | She is only famous for having a
million friends on myspace.
|
| 00:54:04 | And she got a reality show out
of it.
|
| 00:54:07 | Take a look at her idea of art.
|
| 00:54:22 | >> Hey!
|
| 00:54:27 | >> This is your shot at love.
|
| 00:54:29 | >> Bradford cohen, there is some
kind of commonality that I'm
seeing coming out of these
reality shows.
|
| 00:54:38 | These clips, well, it's almost
wild, out-of-control behavior
with no other purpose other than
to do something that is so hot
that it attracts the spotlight.
|
| 00:54:49 | But there is no real script or
content to it.
|
| 00:54:52 | I mean, doing shots?
|
| 00:54:55 | >> Well, certainly there are
some reality shows that are
based around that.
|
| 00:55:00 | That happens to be one of them.
|
| 00:55:02 | The apprentice was a little
bircht reality show than the
normal because it was based
around your business acumen.
|
| 00:55:09 | Themp picking people that were
aggressive and steam rollers and
don't give up arguments and they
end up casting those types of
individuals.
|
| 00:55:20 | In those types of shows where
it's a love show or a family
doing things they normally do,
it's a totally different feeling
behind it.
|
| 00:55:28 | So they go out of their way to
get crazy because they feel
that's what the camera is
looking for.
|
| 00:55:34 | >> I would ask, what is next for
reality television, but guess
what?
|
| 00:55:38 | I'm afraidoas and that's a
subject for another day.
|
| 00:55:41 | You're watching "issues" on hln.
|
